And this authoratative post is, hopefully, the last we need
to say about hardtops in general.
--Roger van Hoy, '55DeSoto, '42DeSoto, '66Plymouth,
'73Duster, '81 Imperial, Washougal, WA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Watson" <wwatson@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: IML: hardtops -- again
|
| General Motors "A" body cars in those days was used on the
Chevrolet and
| Pontiac, while the Oldsmobile and Buick Special/Century
used the "B"body.
| The Buick Super/Roadmaster and all Cadillacs except the 75
used the "C"
| body. Both the "A" and the "C" got the 4-door hardtop in
1956, and only
| the "B" body got the 4-door hardtop in mid-year 1955.
Thus the only 4-door
| hardtops built in 1955 were the Oldsmobile (88, Super 88
and 98) and Buick
| (Special and Century).
|
| The GM "A", "B", and "C" body labelling dates back to 1940
and it was not
| until 1959 that the Chevrolet and Pontiac would share the
"B" body with the
| Oldsmobile and Buick (LeSabre, Invicta and Electra).
The 1959 "C" body
| was used by Buick (Electra 225) and all Cadillacs except
the Brougham and
| 75. The "A" body would not reappear until 1964 when it
was used on the
| new intermediate-size Chevelle/ Beaumont/ Tempest/ F-85 /
Special car lines.
|
| The first post-war 4-door "hardtop convertible" was built
by Kaiser in 1949.
| They took the 4-door sedan, removed the roof and made a
4-door convertible.
| The doors had stationary chrome upper door fames and there
was a stationary
| metal-framed glass pillar between the door glass.
|
| To that body, Kaiser put a roof back on and called it the
"Virginian". The
| Virginian used a three-piece wrap-around rear window and
had the
| convertble's side window configuration. The Kaiser DeLuxe
Virginian was
| sold in 1949 and 1950, and for 1951 the body style
appeared in the Frazer
| Manhatten series.
|
| Chrysler's first 2-door hardtop, by the way, was built in
1946 on the
| 1946-first series 1949 body. Seven of them were built,
and some do still
| exist. The first brochure and folder announcing the
second-series 1949
| line was printed in March, 1949, and it illustrated a
2-door Newport hardtop
| convertible. It was supposed to be available in the
Windsor, New Yorker
| and Town & Country series. Only one 1949 Chrysler Town &
Country 2-door
| hardtop was built. It was built off a production
convertible and is
| included in the 1949 lists of body style production.
|
| Although General Motors gets the credit for the 2-door
hardtop, I believe
| Chrysler should get the nod for the idea. After all, they
did announce the
| body style in March, 1949, months before General Motors
introduced their
| Holiday, Riviera and Coupe de Ville models.
|
| Bill
| Vancouver, BC
|
|
|
| > [The first 4-door hardtop style bodies were made by GM
| > in 1955 in the "B" bodied cars (Buick Special/Century,
| > Olds 88/98 and Chevrolet/Pontiac. The "A" bodied cars
| > (Buick Super/Roadmaster & Cadillac) did not get 4-door
| > hardtop style until 1956]
| >
| > --- Nicholas Essinger <crowncoupe@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
| > > "TL" & "4 Toes"
| > > Some how I copied your addresses down wrong, so must
| > > send this way.
| > >
| > > The original concept of the "hardtop" dates back
| > > over 75 years. However, as
| > > we are familiar with the term, it was applied to the
| > > cars of the late 1940s
| > > - a result of the owner of a convertible who did not
| > > want to lower the top.
| > > The first real hardtops (in the 2 door version)
| > > appeared in 1949 model year,
| > > by GM. Chrysler had a prototype two door hardtop in
| > > 1949 also; it was on
| > > the "Second Series" body of the 1949 models, but was
| > > not introduced until
| > > the 1950 model year. I realize that I am in deep
| > > dudu here, but still feel
| > > that the first four door hardtops were not
| > > introduced until 1956 - by any
| > > company. [Check me on this - OK?]
| > >
| > > The visual difference between a 2 door and 4 door
| > > sedan versus the 2 and 4
| > > door hardtops is quite glaring, really. As you view
| > > the vehicle from the
| > > side, there is open feeling (visual and actual) in
| > > that there is no
| > > "obstruction" between the windshield and the
| > > backglass on a hardtop.
| > > Structurally, on sedans, there are three primary
| > > differences: first, there
| > > is a metal frame surrounding the glass which is a
| > > structural part of the
| > > door; second, there is a hard, steel "post" going
| > > from the floor pan to the
| > > roof rail; and third, the rear door hinges/mounts to
| > > this "post,"(excluding
| > > the 'suicide' rear door of the 1961-1969 Lincoln
| > > Continental).
| > > On a "true" hardtop, structurally, there is no
| > > "complete B post" from the
| > > floor pan to the roof rail, nor is there any metal
| > > frame around the
| > > window(s). [Today, or in past 25 years, "Detroit' &
| > > the advertising media
| > > have used the term hardtop when they were actually
| > > referring to the two door
| > > sedan coupe, on either of 2 models: the front door
| > > is that of the old
| > > hardtop style, but there is a full/solid "B post"
| > > (really, a hardtop sedan
| > > coupe---say a 1975/6 NYB coupe; or the actual front
| > > door of a sedan (metal
| > > window frame) on an actual sedan with the full "B
| > > post"---say a 1978 GM Olds
| > > Delta 88 Royale Coupe...or any 77-85 or so GM
| > > vehicle.] On a 2 door
| > > hardtop, the body/side behind the door and infront
| > > of the rear wheel well
| > > forms the "B post." On the 4 door hardtop, the "B
| > > Post" only rises to the
| > > point just below the level of the windows; it still
| > > must be there to mount
| > > the rear door to the car.
| > > As much as I 'think' about it, and try to find info
| > > to the contrary, I feel
| > > that the first 4 door hardtops were available as
| > > 1956 models. I do know
| > > that in 1949, the ill-fated Kaiser 'Virginian' was
| > > available as a 'four door
| > > hardtop,' and the Frazer 'Manhattan' was available
| > > as a four door
| > > convertible sedan, both for about 15-18 months.
| > >
| > > Any one out there who has additional information, or
| > > that is able to correct
| > > (or modify) the information: please chime in.
| > > Thanks for listening to one
| > > who now owns a two door hardtop (1964 Imperial Crown
| > > Coupe) and a 2 door
| > > coupe (or sedan? - 1978 Olds Delta 88 Royale Coupe)
| > > [and formerly a 78 Ford
| > > LTD four door pillared hardtop sedan as well as a
| > > 1971 Chrysler Newport
| > > Custom four door hardtop]. Later, ne
| > >
| > >
|
|
|
|
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