RE: B body disc brakes - warning - another long reply

[Steven Charette <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mo,
	I just forwarded the thread about this from December to you
off-list.

	The slider-type calipers are cast-iron on cast-iron - that is to say
that the cast-iron caliper slides in a groove on the cast-iron caliper
bracket.  The other type is pin-type - the caliper slides on two round pins
threaded into the caliper bracket.  Pin type calipers are generally regarded
as being "better", as they control caliper movement closely.  Once the pins
seize up (granted, not likely in a lightly driven repro/resto application)
they are a booger to get out, and will never work right again unless they
are replaced.

	Sit down one night and compare the price of the Scarebird setup to
the '73-up Mopar slider setup.  Take bearings, seals, hoses, shields, and
any other required hardware into account, and I don't think the difference
will be much.

	I'm aware that many people have used these kits successfully, but I
still have concerns about steel brackets with welded-in nuts.

	I just looked on Scarebird's site, and under the "Prototype and
Closeout" tab they have a compact conversion bracket that allows mounting
the Mopar slider bracket to the older drum spindle.  It's compact and it
appears that all fasteners bolt through, rather than into the steel bracket.
Take a look and compare it to the '49-'53 Jaguar setup pictured below the
Mopar setup.  See how long the brackets are and the amount of weld holding
the outer bracket piece to the inner piece?  Imagine the amount of force on
those welds when the caliper is clamped down on the rotor at highway speed -
like a giant lever.  Then look at the Mopar setup above it - not cast-iron
to cast-iron, but a lot less leverage.  I'm not sure how the
Scarebird/Ford/Dodge Truck bracket looks, but I'm guessing it's more like
the bottom picture than the top.

	Also be aware that the pin-type calipers rely on smooth movement on
the pins to keep the caliper centered on the rotor.  With an OE cast-iron
caliper bracket, if the pins cease to move smoothly the piston-side pad does
all the stopping and the outer pad doesn't see any action.  It just eats up
the piston-side pad. 

	But with a steel bracket like this, if the pins seize up the bracket
will simply deflect and both pads will continue to stop the car.  While this
sounds dandy, realize that everytime you stop the car, the bracket flexes
under braking, then back when the brakes are released.  Small amounts at
first, then larger amounts as things wear.  That constant flexing will
eventually work harden the steel resulting in cracks then failure.  And
you'll never even know it's happening.

	Maybe someday I'll call Scarebird and see if they can convince me
that these setups are robust.  I'd just hate to see you, your loved ones, or
your car banged up (or worse) in the name of saving a few bucks.

	And who knows - maybe they are a great setup, or just the ticket for
a show-poodle or trailer queen.  We drive big, old, heavy cars, and while
the Dodge 1500 caliper will generate a lot of stopping power, are the rest
of the parts transferring that force to the car up to those heavy loads??
Follow the load path - heavy duty truck pads, 1/2 ton truck caliper, mild
steel caliper bracket, OE car spindle, OE ball joints, control arms,
K-member/frame.  Which piece is the weak link?

	Just for giggles I looked on eBay and there's a place called
Performance Online Parts selling a kit with what appear to be OE spindles,
calipers, brackets, new rotors, dust shields, lines, bearings, seals and
hardware for $379.  Go to the POL website and this same kit is on sale for
$370.  These appear to be the parts recommended in the Mopar Action tech
article.  I don't know who they are, don't know where they get their parts
and have never bought from them - but I'd do this in a heartbeat before
using a backyard conversion.  Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-74-MOPAR-CHRYSLER-DODGE-DISC-BRAKE-CONVE
RSION-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230481aa83QQitemZ150399462019QQptZMotor
sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

	That's even cheaper than the list I posted in my 12/18 e-mail
including the dust shields (although I see new ones on eBay for $55/set
now).

	Apologies for the long read, but like I mentioned before, I get
pretty passionate when I think about brakes.

SC


-----Original Message-----
From: MO ( Steve Mick) [mailto:micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:48 AM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: B body disc brakes


 I want to run this up the flagpole again. I had a couple responces, One
about future availability on 70-72 Ford Rotors  and a satisfied Valient
owner Any other input, And what is meant by a slider type caliper? Any 
downside to those?   Thanks .................MO.
----- Original Message -----
From: "MO ( Steve Mick)" <micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:44 AM
Subject: B body disc brakes


>
> Any opinions on SCAREBIRDS disc brake conversions?  They supply the 
> bracket , adapters and instructions for $165. You supply the 11- 3/4
> 70-72 ford galaxie front rotors and 94-99  Dodge Ram 1500 calipers. 
> You have to use 15" rims, but this combo sounds like some real stopping
power.
> I think they say the Dodge calipers is the slider type --Is that good 
> and what does that mean?  I know you can put together a alll Mopar set 
> up, but the kit appeals to me  for ease of assembly and not hunting 
> down parts................... Thoughts 
> please?................................MO
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and
>
>
> 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.