John,
Everything you said is correct. But you are operating from an incorrect assumption.
When idiots take off the drums and allow the key to destroy the threads on the axle shaft. One can use a cleaning die or a file and take care of that. Thread engagement will be lessened by the section that was destroyed and that causes
a reduction in clamping force.
The big problem is that the same idiots that mangled the threads on the shafts also tend to put the nut back on and run them down over the damaged shaft threads that they had not bothered to take care of . In the process they destroy the
nut threads. Even if you can get a cleaning tap through the nut most of the time the nut is shot. Too much material is gone, and it goes on very loose and is a danger as its grip is severely reduced.
So, which god does one prey to?
A axle shaft that has reduced threads and cleaned up somewhat can use:
- A old nut that has been run through with a tap and the thread engagement is very low across the entire thread range.
- A new castle nut with a much smaller bearing on the washer, even with the stock nut the washers shows signs of cupper under pressure which would be worse with a smaller OD nut.
- A heavy hex nut that has the factory bearing (OD) on the washer, but must be cut down to get on the “castle cap” to get the cotter pin in.
A new heavy hex nut would have more thread DEPTH on each thread than and old nut that had to be tapped and as such would have more holding power than the stock unit I think---but I do not know. That question that would take a lot of actual
calculations is which one in the end would hold more.
James
From: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, December 5, 2023 08:23
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Chrysler Castle Axle Nuts - Correct Size - Finding
Hi
From from an engineering perspective, a nut that is somewhat mangled by normal abuse is plenty strong enough on this application, and more important has been specified in terms of hardness, ductility, heat treat , resistance to shock,
temp changes, length of thread engagement, thread loading at ft/Lb etc to do that job. A very hard ,high psi hardened nut may crack from shock loads or something,----hardening to high psi reduces ductility... and that nut was a compromise of all this, well
proven, by 25 +years of use. Safety factor is huge just looking at it, more likely it is that big ,to allow developing the axial force at a torque to seat taper fully, --not to "hold drum on" so much.. Your old nuts are fine , NOT new ones with thick washer,
due to resulting less thread engagement --the limited distance to cotter hole wasted under a washer hole.
With a washer it reduces thread length engaged with male end of the axle, a very bad idea. It is tall now to load the available threads a certain way, without deformation, fewer threads leads to failure. The way this joint would most probably
fail is a crack at the root of first inner male thread , breaking off the end of axle, not nut failing.. That is because fewer threads are distributing the same load, less threads working you cause a stress riser at root of first thread, or even worse stretch it
to yield with too much thread load. Then one day it snaps off on its own. I would not worry about the aesthetics of lug holding nuts. Why?
PS look at ARP site for more tech info. Especially around "toughness" or ductility. But old nuts are best.
Well,
I have spent days and could not find nut that has the rather large OD as the factory Castle Nut. They just do not exist.
One could order a Heavy Hex Nut and use one of those cotter pin toppers with it I suppose. The problem is that a heavy hex nut is also taller. It would have to be put into a lathe
and cut down.
Yes, I can find other used ones. But most of them have been battered by the pushed down threads of badly removed drum keys.
So much fun.
James
Thanks Zach, I have some used spares from my 1940’s Desoto’s. I was looking for some new nuts. Why? Because over time people pull off the hubs without giving the square pin a hit
on the end with a hammer and punch to make sure that then they pull the hub off it does not come with it. When it does come with the hub that destroys the threads on the axle shaft.
Idiots then do not case the axle shaft threads with a cleaning die and just stick the nut on and crank it down. That screws up the nut threads and they are never the same again.
If you chase the nut and chase the axle shaft you get a sloppy nut that will not torque correctly. Hence, why I am looking for new nuts.
I suspect that I am looking for a ghost and will have to just use the new nuts available and have to machine a washer to make up for the flange area and depth of the nut. In any
case a close inspection of the washers show that they are “cupping” a bit which means that the drum is pushing back on that nut. A hardened slightly thicker washer may not be a bad thing, I just hate to lose even 4 or 5 threads of depth with the available
new nuts. A VERY high-quality cotter pin is a good idea on these very old threads.
James
From: Zach Hietsch <zhietsch@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 07:24
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Chrysler Castle Axle Nuts - Correct Size - Finding
Hello James,
I have a 300B and I’m pretty sure I have a few spare castle nuts for the spindle to hold the drums on. Is that what you are looking for?
If it’s for the suspension I might have those too. I got a bunch of parts when I got my car and I haven’t gotten through all of it yet. There is also potential that they are not
for a Chrysler as my grandfather kept everything from everything.
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