Re: {Chrysler 300} 300c engine location and e brake
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Re: {Chrysler 300} 300c engine location and e brake



Hi Rich ,
i believe the pinion gear centerline has to be in ring gear plane for anything commercially viable to make . I had   some experience with Packards ( they were the best machinist type car outfit, IMHO , but more than one high cost approach - forged front end parts for one!)   , their stick transmission is a true work of art . They built better V 12 Merlin’s in WW2 than the designer of it , Rolls Royce . Redesigned it a bit.  Used selective fit colored bins and colored go no go gauges instead of British fascination with extreme precision measuring , cut time  to build it in half , no errors.  
their axle at least in thirties had the ring gear 3D machined  in the housing in such a way it allowed the  pinion to be almost partially under it(!) at very bottom of ring . But pinion ended up at a small normal angle pointing right at crankshaft   . this dropped the back of their driveshaft a lot , allowing a very small hump or flat floor (!) way cool idea, but what a gear to make . angled mesh in 3 D — with no cnc .. 

Ran dead quiet too . 

I am wondering now what is “ok”as an error on a car U joint , centerline parallelism ; we know rear axle leaf spring U bolt shimming targets a few degrees and will vary with car load ; hemi is off to right 2” at pulley  and tail is only 1” offset , so we have 1” in say 5 feet ? 1/60 =arcsine of 0 . 95 degrees . So that is nothing to U joint , compared to 2-3 degrees twist of axle nose . 
We therefore have no issues with slight angle in frame ! 
I think I read once somewhere that it is beneficial to a U joint to have a small active working angle as if in perfect alignment it does not move , wears in one spot making divots at ,and on , rollers .  — maybe .. 

Good exchange on all this , still learning 
John 

Sent from my iPhone not by choice 

On 20 Nov 2020, at 11:04 pm, Rich Barber <c300@xxxxxxx> wrote:

There may be several reasons for engine offset:  More footwell for the driver and all the pedals, offsets the weight of the driver on the LHS somewhat-and that new one for me-provide space under the hood for the steering gear, starter, ABS, MC and other equipment on the car’s LHS under the hood.  All good reasons IMHO.

 

I had an RV on the Chev HD P-30 chassis. It’s engine was really offset which resulted in a rather limited RHS footwell—or so the copilot reported.

 

When I received my 1955 C-300, we were looking at its underside and noted the rear transmission mount support had been 180’d.  This produced a really out of line driveshaft.  Rather than drop the exhaust system so the cross-mount support could be removed and re-installed, my mechanic jus drilled new holes for the mount pad.  The driveshaft tunnel had the proper angled offset and I’m wondering if the diff carrier may also have been designed with the pinion shaft angled slightly off-center.  Can’t swear to that.

 

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA

 

From: barjam300 via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 12:06 PM
To: jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; micke.sundbom@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} 300c engine location and e brake

 

John,

 

I alwasy thought the engine was offset to the right to provide clearance for the steering colume.

 

Jim B

-----Original Message-----
From: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Michael Sundbom <micke.sundbom@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2020 5:29 pm
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} 300c engine location and e brake

thanks Mike , I left that offset in the mount rubber out of all this discussion as the slots under the mount let you deal with that a little bit . I agree new rubber — the hole in new rubber is offset , too — right ? What you mean by arrow ?  

I got new rubber from Turkey of all

places ( for that Dodge ) but could not get the old rubber biscuit free of can . I decided might be vulcanized to can ? I used hydraulic press could not move it . Thought about burning it out . But center bolt thing had gone up

into can   about 3/8 , otherwise ok ? so just shimmed  it 3/8 over slot with large washers that did not hit can sides . Both sides were that way , ( no way was rubber coming out) — decided if in that solid , a new loose one might not be as good ?

Unsure about all this , re : vulcanized ( must have been)’but so far so good . When bolt moves up into rubber , the oil pan can touch crossmember , can outside can touch motor mount , and in that car , engine was not level side to side either . by leveling on hoist and tightening one side in slot then letting other side down , fixed that  too . weird setup ... 

Note that reversing mounts R and L I think reverses that offset too . Why I mentioned many subtle non obvious ways to assemble wrong . And all fits  together  ok , wrong    

 

Sent from my iPhone not by choice 


On 19 Nov 2020, at 4:33 pm, Michael Sundbom <micke.sundbom@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 Pics, swaped the early open cup mount and put in new insulators. Old  open insulators was collapsed and cups/mount out of round. First I got confused when new engine/tranny in place pointed the engine offset to passanger side.

Checked it over and now  to my understanding it is correct in place. I fitted the tranny mount first and then placed the engine mounts with  new insulators having the marked arrow towards the block.

 I can take mesurments pics etc if you want me

to,, just give me a note.

/Michael

 

 

Den tors 19 nov. 2020 21:20John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> skrev:

Hi all .
Working on  300c convert partially assembled by others , very careful work ,but maybe some significant errors . Just sharing experience data , and hoping to find answers too . What follows can happen to anybody ....
we noticed today the tail shaft of the trans is shifted to driver side , drum almost hits driver side floor and this led to noticing whole engine seems angled side to side in frame  . I measured front pulley to torsion bar centers  , engine is purposely I think shifted by Chrysler to the passenger side by design , approaching a 2” offset .   Note this does not matter to driveshaft or rear u joint — if parallel.  Rear pinion is parallel to frame ( 90 degree to axle has to be) says engine must be parallel too , for U joints  to   work right ( hmmmm— re : U joint hassles)

Quick take — it looks like trans mount crossmember (not the rubber mount ) can go into frame 180 out , shifting tail the opposite way (!)  . TBD .There are also multiple lower rubber trans mount holes in that crossmember . (?)  . I would expect engineering wise  engine axis is to be in vertical view parallel  to frame / torsion bars? And thus pinion . sideways offset is ok if parallel .

Also says engine mounts are asymmetric or frame weld on front mount places are. Or both . heads up .     

Related possibly , I had an awful time for a  while  last year with a 57 dodge that had been apparently assembled (unknown to anybody— especially me) after a PO engine rebuild ( not by me) with engine mounts swapped left and right and on wrong side of block tabs . that moves engine back and forth . Trans rubber mount was redrilled and was sitting  off the crossmember .  All the same parts as 300

This one presently has 392 block tabs located behind  the mount steel , moving engine back , (? correct) and fan clutch is about 3/4 from radiator . But tie rod is just about touching oil  pan drain dip , looks wrong. Block Tabs are maybe 3/8 thick , I might fix that ( if wrong ) by relocating  mount tabs ? = engine forward 3/8” ?? Compounding figuring that out, it had wrong tie rod ends, new , too long to adjust properly (from taper bolt to adjusting thread ) and the offset bend was a little different , could not adjust right , that was first clue . now correct 57 ends, but  tie rod still very near pan . like 1/8” ?? Ok , -normal or not ?

Anyone ever get into this ? there are 4 ways front mounts can be put in wrong -  Rand L  and forward back of tabs? it seems.

 ??? ? normal spacing fan clutch to radiator and tie rod to pan?   trans end normal offset to passenger side ?? There are Several tie rod part numbers too . (??) 

As those round mounts age , or get oil on them, they tend to sag engine down — pin inside goes up into rubber  but imho still serviceable  ; on Dodge we put about 3/8” spacer washers under each , raised engine back-up,  all is good .

Next , E brake on C was assembled completely missing the straight lever multiplying bar from the pull handle up to pivot pin above .  Cable end “U” is now attached  direct  to handle , which cannot work . I now need that bar and pins ( help !!) cable normally attaches to that lever or “ratio bar “ by a through pin directly opposite cable fire wall hole . Been into that area before — end U breaks off had  to weld to fix . Grip on E brake handle on this C is down , yet on 58 we have it is facing up . Is that right ? 

This is a very nice car , but I think assembled without good pictures or another one to look at . that is hard...   
I will Have to go through end to end..   
Carefully done work , but lacking knowing how it was ? ( = take pictures)

Last — and this can drive you to Jack  , convert roof cloth seems put on purposely front slightly offset (3/8” toward passenger side) ) , on roof frame and trim ,yet edge of cloth on driver’s side hangs down too much , such that driver window hits it . Head is hurting as to why this ? Rubber on roof rail seems ok , related to window . not into this just yet , but someone may have fought this one already .    ? .= somehow Height of convert frame rail on one side  when latched ? gap there in roof rail  at arm fold is closed .. roughly ok ??


The first day!!
John



Sent from my iPhone not by choice

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