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Absolutely block them off ; for performance....They are a concession
to easier cold starts and cold emissions; warming the intake charge reduces power.
George knew his stuff. From: news4ge@xxxxxxx
[mailto:news4ge@xxxxxxx] One more comment on J/K rams: When I was putting mine back
together there was some discussion about whether or not to block off the heat
tubes. Some of the club members had done that. I asked George Riehl
about it and he said they absolutely should be blocked off. He said to
block them off where they meet the intake. That's what I did, altho I
wonder if it might have been better to block them at the header, to avoid
eventually blowing out the tubes (and reducing back pressure). Maybe
there's some value in having at least some exhaust heat reaching the
intake. I reasoned that if George could run his J in Michigan, I could
run my K in Florida. Any thoughts? George Clineman -----Original Message----- In a final effort to disseminate information today, I’d add these
notes on the ram J-K intake manifold heat issue. Just to describe the
flow pattern of the hot exhaust gas used to heat the manifolds under the
carbs. There is, of course, a baffle plate under the four holes that
admit the fuel-air charge from the carburetors into the two single cross
section passages of each intake manifold (and, the smaller equalizer tube
connecting these chambers on each side). The lower section of each
chamber has two down-facing flange-like surfaces, drilled and tapped for two
bolts each. In order to achieve flow of hot exhaust gas into one of these
ports and out the other, connections are made with flanged-end steel tubes to
similarly-flanged ports at, apparently, high-pressure and low pressure areas of
the huge cast iron exhaust manifolds. I’d expect that side flow to vary
somewhat with volumetric flow of exhaust gas in the manifold, but the system
seems to provide plenty of heat—uncontrollable and maybe sometimes just right
or too much. Some of the heat would be expected to flow upward through the
chamber tops and into the carbs. The whole idea is to vaporize the liquid
fuel coming in through the carb jets before it hits the combustion chamber and
before the plug fires. Although rather simple, the concept is brilliant
and seems to work—probably quicker and hotter than heating the manifold with
engine coolant. My first car, a ’40 Ford, had a similar system for heating the
passenger compartment. A fan blew cold air across a finned section of the
exhaust pipe and the heated air was then re-introduced into the passenger
compartment and to the windshield defroster system. It seemed to work
well, but any exhaust leak in the system would introduce CO into the passenger
compartment. And, there was no temperature control. In 1938-39,
Nash invented and patented certain features of their Weather–Eye heater system
that used hot coolant to heat outside air for the heater & defroster.
I always heard that Nash then licensed their heaters to the Big Three or traded
the rights for something they needed that was patented by the Big Three..
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Eye Th-th-that’s all folks, C300K’ly, Rich Barber The “Other” Brentwood, CA (OJ and the Governator never even
visited here—ornamental trees in full bloom) From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Don Verity Hi, Agree totally, Don,--- and was starting to doubt my sanity as I
remember the F heat risers rattling or sure thought I did , distinctive
noise of 60-61 idling. ...and getting them equal. Re the pad, Heat flows upward in gas except radiant heat,
which is surface area related and pan top IS hot ; exhaust passage is small
part of manifold underside compared to pan, (as you note about A block
baffling ) and a pad might reasonably be acting as a thermal insulator and a
silencer too ; whether air blowing through is better is up for grabs, but
drag guys wrap manifold in wet rags etc . Yes, the valley pan will be hot, but not as hot as the exhaust
passage. Just look at any V-8 Mopar with the passage open and you will see
burned paint where the passage goes through. Drag guys have the heat blocked
off, don’t run on the street, and only run 1/4 mile at a time. The wet rags,
cool cans, etc. are to keep the fuel air charge as cool as possible. The pad would help hot soak, no question. but I never had use
for one. Pick your poison on that. It is wrapped in aluminum , like present
thermal/acoustic products for sound insulation..which also do both. Re Fact 2,all we need is Don to set them up; That F in Maine was
the real deal...reality...surrounded by smart ram experienced club
guys. And Don knows not to flood it in the first place . But a soccer mom may not.... fact remains the Plymouth wagon
lost its rams when new, probably due to bumbling at dealer, but also due to
having to know how to drive/start these cars. And it was brand new. Soccer moms were not invented when the letter cars were new.
They would not be driving such an impractical car even if they were. I remember
the car in Maine. It was a pure show car if I remember right. The plugs were
probably partially fouled. I flooded mine, not often, but I did. It is easy to do,
and frustrating . And when I did I had to remove air cleaners, open choke
to get air into it ...vs kill battery trying to make a point (in the short term
) to start it. If not flooded no problem; I bought a G one time in 70’s
off a used car lot in Reno and drove it back to Boston , some snow in Utah,
(old Route 50!) with a small tool box, and it never gave me any start problems
, but it was in Spring ,sort of ,--- but I hear you. It is not guys in 300 club
who have problems ----but even they do sometimes. Remember that the flooding was probably from a no-start
condition in the first place. Or it was real cold out. I’m sure a lot of
no-start, or slow start episodes can be traced to an ignition system problem.
Those ram carbs never really warm up in cold weather. I drove my G up to
northern Vermont once to look at a D. It was in the single digits up there, and
it snowed some on the way home. When I got home and popped the hood, the carbs
were ice cold. Setup for start involves choke setup, mainly ....one assumes
mixture idle etc has all been well set. All auto chokes a little dicey,
depending on skill of mechanic , or they would not need WOT unloaders, at
all, right? Right. Flooding does occur. You can read about it in the owners
manuals. Are 300E carbs AFB? Most dual quads work just as you say. .
Aftermarket progressive linkage same thing. The does have AFB’s. I noticed when I was looking at mine that
the connector link was in the upper hole on the front carb when it should be on
the bottom. The linkage would jam near wide open throttle, and the front carb
would never open all the way. Could be one reason why it blew up in the 60’s.
To lean. Interesting exchange....really. Yes it is, Don From: Don Verity [mailto:d.verity@xxxxxxx]
I guess I have to clear up a few facts about these cars. Fact 1. The foil wrapped pad under the intake is
not there to insulate anything. It’s a silencer pad to mask some valve train
noise. The valley pan certainly does not need to be insulated from cross-over
heat. It would be cooler without the pad and air flow going through it. Small
block Mopars have oil from the lifter valley splashing directly on the bottom
of the intake, except for one piece of tin directly under the crossover
passage. Check the parts book and it calls the pad a silencer. Fact 2. 60-61 Ram cars have a heat riser valve in
both manifolds. 62-64 short ram cars with headers just have tubes with a
restrictor on one of them. I drove a G for over 20 years and thousands of
miles, and never flooded it. When set up properly, the ram system is
quite reliable. They were no more troublesome than any other brand with
multiple carbs, probably less in some cases. They were also never sold in anything
coming close to large quantities, and the original owners likely knew what they
were getting into. The big problem is lack of mechanics qualified to work on
them, back then and now. Fact 3. I don’t have an H so I can’t vouch for
how those carbs are set up, but I do have an E (the intake and carbs are on my
kitchen table), and both carbs have an idle circuit, and idle air screw. Only
one has a choke though. The linkage opens in stages with the front barrels of
the rear carb working first, then the front barrels of the front carb, then at
wide open all eight. They do not go from 2 to 8. Ram cars are 4 all the time
and 8 at full throttle. My C also has idle circuits on both carbs and won’t run
right on only the rear carb. I found that out when the connecting fuel line
went and I tried to run it on the rear carb only. It ran but idled rough. That’s my rant for now. Did I miss anything? Don Verity C(2), E, F, J __._,_.___ To send a message to this group, send an email to: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or go to http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join and select the "Leave Group" button For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
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