RE: [Chrysler300] Manifolds and carbs

Hi,

Agree totally, Don,--- and was starting to doubt my sanity as I remember the F heat risers rattling or sure thought I did , distinctive noise of 60-61 idling. ...and getting them equal.

Re the pad, Heat flows upward in gas except radiant heat, which is surface area related and pan top IS hot ; exhaust passage is small part of manifold underside compared to pan, (as you note about A block baffling ) and a pad might reasonably be acting as a thermal insulator and a silencer too ; whether air blowing through is better is up for grabs, but drag guys wrap manifold in wet rags etc .

The pad would help hot soak, no question. but I never had use for one. Pick your poison on that. It is wrapped in aluminum , like present thermal/acoustic products for sound insulation..which also do both.

Re Fact 2,all we need is Don to set them up; That F in Maine was the real deal...reality...surrounded by smart ram experienced club guys. And Don knows not to flood it in the first place .

But a soccer mom may not.... fact remains the Plymouth wagon lost its rams when new, probably due to bumbling at dealer, but also due to having to know how to drive/start these cars. And it was brand new.

I flooded mine, not often, but I did. It is easy to do, and frustrating . And when I did I had to remove air cleaners, open choke to get air into it ...vs kill battery trying to make a point (in the short term ) to start it. If not flooded no problem; I bought a G one time in 70’s off a used car lot in Reno and drove it back to Boston , some snow in Utah, (old Route 50!) with a small tool box, and it never gave me any start problems , but it was in Spring ,sort of ,--- but I hear you. It is not guys in 300 club who have problems ----but even they do sometimes.

Setup for start involves choke setup, mainly ....one assumes mixture idle etc has all been well set. All auto chokes a little dicey, depending on skill of mechanic , or they would not need WOT unloaders, at all, right?

Are 300E carbs AFB? Most dual quads work just as you say. . Aftermarket progressive linkage same thing.

Interesting exchange....really.

From: Don Verity [mailto:d.verity@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 3:56 PM
To: mmoore8425@xxxxxxx; jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; kmaniak@xxxxxxx
Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Manifolds and carbs

I guess I have to clear up a few facts about these cars.

Fact 1. The foil wrapped pad under the intake is not there to insulate anything. It’s a silencer pad to mask some valve train noise. The valley pan certainly does not need to be insulated from cross-over heat. It would be cooler without the pad and air flow going through it. Small block Mopars have oil from the lifter valley splashing directly on the bottom of the intake, except for one piece of tin directly under the crossover passage. Check the parts book and it calls the pad a silencer.

Fact 2. 60-61 Ram cars have a heat riser valve in both manifolds. 62-64 short ram cars with headers just have tubes with a restrictor on one of them. I drove a G for over 20 years and thousands of miles, and never flooded it. When set up properly, the ram system is quite reliable. They were no more troublesome than any other brand with multiple carbs, probably less in some cases. They were also never sold in anything coming close to large quantities, and the original owners likely knew what they were getting into. The big problem is lack of mechanics qualified to work on them, back then and now.

Fact 3. I don’t have an H so I can’t vouch for how those carbs are set up, but I do have an E (the intake and carbs are on my kitchen table), and both carbs have an idle circuit, and idle air screw. Only one has a choke though. The linkage opens in stages with the front barrels of the rear carb working first, then the front barrels of the front carb, then at wide open all eight. They do not go from 2 to 8. Ram cars are 4 all the time and 8 at full throttle. My C also has idle circuits on both carbs and won’t run right on only the rear carb. I found that out when the connecting fuel line went and I tried to run it on the rear carb only. It ran but idled rough.

That’s my rant for now. Did I miss anything?

Don Verity

C(2), E, F, J

From: kmaniak@xxxxxxx

Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:01 PM

To: mmoore8425@xxxxxxx ; jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Cc: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Manifolds and carbs

Mike:

The foil wrapped insulation pad between the underside of the intake manifold and the valley cover was placed there in the factory to keep the heat from the exhaust passage from transferring downward into the valley. They are/were present in all my big block cars, except rams.

When you say your heat riser valve was removed, do you mean they pulled out the butterfly and left the empty shaft, or did they remove the valve and shaft and fill in the shaft holes in one manner or another? Just curious...

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Moore <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx>
To: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: kmaniak <kmaniak@xxxxxxx>; 300 <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:29 am
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Manifolds and carbs

My 300H had a very thick insulation pad made from some sort of fiberglass, or asbestos wool in an heavy aluminum foil envelope under the intake manifold and extending outthe back. It seemed to me to be factory made, but can't be sure. I've always wondered what had happened to cause the manifold heat valve to be removed, the choke to be converted to manual, and I had assumed that pad was all part of it.

When I got the car, my neighbor, who was an older mechanic and who was knowledgeable, commented that I should just use the choke to get it started and get it off choke as soon. Big engones, he said, don't need much choke once running (?).

My drivers side seat was raised up wooden blocks under each corner. The original owners was a Navy fighter pilot (F4H) who was killed in 1966, and I got it from his family.

Mike Moore