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> From: Joe Mopar <peter_galmish_at_mcrel-denver@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [FWDLK] More ?s, just can't help it...
> Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 12:46 PM
>
> Hello everyone,
> First off, thanks for all the responses to my earlier posts. I went
> and bought the standard catalogue of Chrysler, and have been reading
> it since. I am thrilled to hear that a 392 - `58 fury is not that
> difficult of a project. I imagine that it would make for one of the
> cooler cars ever made. I have some concerns that I would like to
> present to everyone. How available are these cars. I have been
> looking around lately, and I have not found many older Mopars.
There
> are hundreds of old chevys around, but I am meeting with no Mopar
> success. The back of the Chrysler catalogue lists prices for cars
> based on condition. How accurate are these? I would love to find a
> 392 etc. in any (non cracked of course) condition. I have been told
> that these engines are worth a fortune (second only to the 426
hemi).
Well, defining a fortune depends on what you have. As an example though,
you can find an ad for rebuilt early hemis in the June 98 Rod & Custom (p.
113): 331 at $3995, 354 at $4995, and a 392 at $5995 (assembled long
blocks). In Mopar Action, a 426 hemi crate engine from Koller Dodge is
$9999.
> I like the Forward look cars because they have so many good
qualities,
> but my budget isn't on par with my taste. I have a couple of engine
> questions, with the hope that the 392 isn't the only graceful fit in
a
> `58. What are the differences between the 413 and the 392? Is it
> correct that the 413 was used for it's better hp over the 392? How
> does the 413 relate to the 426, and then the 426 hemi? Is there a
> progression between these engines? How does the 440 fit in with
these
> other big blocks? Was the early 383 a poly head wedge engine? Does
> it use the same block as the 318?
Well, a little background...
There were 3 different series of early hemis from Chrysler Corp - Dodge,
DeSoto, and Chrysler. About the only shared parts I'm aware among these
three was timing gear, and distributors - and that is very limited sharing.
Even within a series (say, DeSoto), things changed enough from year to
year that you should check compatibility. (Though even current electronic
distributors can be modified to fit all.) The Chrysler early hemis
(331/354/392) used the A block. Less expensive to manufacture versions of
the A block had the poly heads (single rocker shaft and a polispherical
combustion chamber). This includes the early 318 (built through 1966?),
which is often referred to as the 'wide block'. (This term leads to
confusion regarding big blocks, which this is NOT).
The LA (low deck A) engine was based on these blocks, but a lower cylinder
deck height. This also reduced the overall width of the block. This
engine family started with the 273, and includes the 318 (1967 on, not the
same as the early poly 318), the 340, and the 360. The current Magnum
series - the 5.2 L (318) and the 5.8 L (360) are a further development of
this block. Changes are significant enough that Magnum heads can't be used
on earlier LA blocks. All early hemis, A's, LA's, and Magnums have the
distributor at the rear center of the block.
The big blocks include the B and RB series engines. The RB (raised block)
is a taller block than the B. Many parts are interchangeable, but not
intake manifolds (as an example), because the taller deck has a wider
spread. RB blocks can use B block intakes with adapters, but so much is
available that the need to do this is low. In reading, you'll frequently
(usually) find the term 'B' used to refer to both B/RB engines. B's were
available as 350, 361, 383, 400 cid (at various times). The RB's included
383, 413, 426, and 440 cid engines. Yes, there were both B and RB engines
at 383 cubes. B/RB have the distributor in front center of the engine,
tilted toward the passenger side.
Likely the B/RB engines replaced the hemis to provide torque enough for our
big heavy cars (well, mine's 2 tons), with a lower manufacturing cost than
the hemis. Remember, more expensive castings for heads...3 engine families
with little parts compatibility yielding about three times the tooling
costs...etc vs B/RB that are almost identical and thus are essentially a
single design. The 426 hemi had different heads than the 426 wedge, in
addition to (I believe) a modified RB block. The engine mounts are a
little different for the 426 hemi.
> Finally, is the `58 Dodge or Desoto
> similar to the Fury in bellhousing and tranny configuration?
As long as you have the same block across the makes, they should be the
same. (eg, Dodge B = DeSoto B = Chrysler B = Plymouth B). There were
flathead 6's, A-series engines, and B/RB engines - thus, three
bellhousing/tranny configurations. The Plymouth was available with a big
block, so, with the right parts, any B/RB should bolt in. However,
transmission compatibility across different years of B/RB requires
checking... For example, a later model B/RB won't hook up to a pushbutton
Torqueflite...
> Last
> but not least, my Dad informed me that a Great Uncle of mine had an
> old early hemi Chrysler sitting on his farm. (along with a bullet
> nosed studebaker etc.) He passed away last year, and I believe that
> the car is still sitting there. I am in the process of finding out
> more about this car. Wish me luck.
> Peter
Hey, good luck! Sounds more like a gold mine than a farm! Gotta love that
bullet-nose, too.
Steve Shapiro
'55 DeSoto Firedome
'91 Dodge Spirit R/T
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