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Title: AOL Email
Jim -- Sure I watched the video. The usual muck raking from Fox News. I also did a Bing search & found a lot more information, maybe you should have done a little research as well. This was on the Snopes Site: The possibility exists that an E10 customer who uses a pump directly after an E15 customer might receive as much as a third of a gallon of E15 from residual fuel remaining in the fueling hose, to adverse effect. It is unlikely that such a relatively small amount of residual E15 mixed into a gas tank of E10 could cause problems for standard automobiles, but it may potentially be an issue for gasoline-powered vehicles and equipment with smaller fuel tanks, such as motorcycles, ATVs, chain saws, and lawn mowers. Doesn't seem likely that you would take your Lawn Mower, Chain Saw or ATV to the gas station to fill it up. I usually use a 3 gal gas can for that kind of stuff. Far as the tests run by the industry group known as the Coordinating Research Council (CRC) goes, here's some quotes from Convenience Store News. Controversy surrounds the research methodologies, with several industry groups and fuel experts saying concerns about E15’s safety are unfounded. The U.S. Department of Energy and Growth Energy both called the 2012 study “fundamentally flawed,” charging that the research was conducted in a way that netted unreliable and incomplete data. In addition, an October report entitled Review and Evaluation of Studies on the Use of E15 in Light-Duty Vehicles, conducted by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), found no evidence that engines using gasoline with a 15-percent ethanol component will experience engine failure. In fact, the report found that the available literature did not show any “meaningful differences” between E15 and E10 in “any performance category.” As Dr. Andrew L. Randolph, the technical director at Earnhardt Childress Racing who received his Ph.D. in chemical engineering from Northwestern University -- specializing in the combustion properties of alcohol/diesel and alcohol/oil blends — noted: “The [2012] study purported to show that E15 fuel was detrimental to engine durability relative to E0...[but] there are lots of issues here.” Questioning the Research “Billions of miles have been run successfully with E10, yet that was not used as the baseline for this study because it would not have provided the conclusion that they wanted,” Dr. Randolph stressed. “This study was designed to cause the engines to fail on all fuels.” (Note: engines failed on clear gas, too.) There were other problems as well, including the fact that the study defined “failure” as 10 percent cylinder leakdown in any one of the engine cylinders. “Some of the engines started with [more than] 8 percent leakdown when they were brand-new,” he added. “As somebody with over 30 years of engine development experience, I can say that you would not even notice if a cylinder in your car exceeded 10 percent leakdown, despite it being ‘failed’ by this test definition. And six of the eight vehicle models used in this test were rated as poor or very poor for fuel system issues by Consumer Reports. Indeed, two of the engines failed the test running on clear gas.” Additionally, the study employed a standard automotive high-load endurance test, but the peak engine speed was limited to 3500 r/min. The reason? “High-speed testing can conceal valve seat wear issues by increasing oil pullover through the positive crankcase ventilation system and lubricating the valve seats,” the study said. In other words, according to Dr. Randolph, the engines wouldn’t “fail” if they followed the industry-standard test and thus, they had to invent a new test. “These engines ran 500 hours at wide-open-throttle with the engine speed limited to 3500 r/min. Can you imagine any real-world scenario that would produce this type of operating history? I can’t either,” he stated. Real World Results “The API went out and pushed the negatives and said everyone hates E15; the other side says everyone loves it. Anybody can skew any study any way, which is why you have to look beyond surveys on both sides and go to the real world,” Zaremba said. “I am the real world, and nothing in the real world has shown there are any issues with E15.” Nothing Dr. Randolph or Zaremba have experienced points to problems prompted by E15. Dr. Randolph has even seen benefits the renewable fuel delivers. “We have now accumulated over 4 million miles in NASCAR, racing E15 under the most stringent engine operating conditions with zero fuel-related engine failures,” he reported. “Prior to 2011, NASCAR used an unleaded E0 gasoline. The change to E15 caused the internal engine components to run cleaner and reduced carbon deposits.” A secondary benefit is that ethanol is a great octane booster. “It is much safer and much more economical than commonly used aromatic hydrocarbons, many of which are known carcinogens,” he added. “Aromatic concentration dropped from over 40 percent to around 20 percent at equal octane level with the addition of 15-percent ethanol.” Zaremba describes the negative press about E15 as “posturing to try to hold off market share change.” For him, the proof of E15’s safety lies in the track record he has enjoyed since debuting renewable fuels. “I have only had two claims from customers in the last seven years and both have been false,” he noted. The most recent one came from a customer who complained about the fuel she had purchased after her car dealer detected a red tint in the fuel. “It had nothing to do with the fuel,” Zaremba said, noting that the customer had pumped six gallons of off-road diesel fuel into her vehicle before moving to another pump after realizing her mistake — something Zaremba proved by providing her receipt. Seems to me that there's lots of information out there, supporting both sides. Some of it is suspect, some of it obviously biased. The reality of it is, E15 will be available at a gas station near you. It is recommended that you not put it in cars manufactured before 2007 unless it is a Flex-Fuel car. Otherwise, use the E10 everyone else is using. There's a potential that some unaware driver might put the E15 into thier 2006 or before car but that driver would also be the one who puts Diesel in their gas car. My suggestion is do the opposite of the Politically Correct thing, trust in the intelligence of the common driver & assume they can read well enough to pick the correct fuel for their vehicle. My objection to Ethanol derived from Corn or other Food Products is the impact it has on Food Supplies. Corn of the grade which would otherwise be used for Animal Feed is being consumed for Fuel. That has a negative impact of Human Food prices & Bourbon. There are other sources of Ethanol which are not used for Animal Feed, They only need to be utilized instead of Corn. No disrespect intended. Everyone has a right to their opinion but opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has a right to at least 1. As far as I'm concerned Conversation Ended. Later all. Robert Tittle From: "Jim" <jimntempe@xxxxxxxxx> To: "Robert Tittle" <robert.tittle@xxxxxxxxxxx>, L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:35:28 PM Subject: Re: [FWDLK] THIS GASOLINE RUIN's YOUR ENGINE Did you watch the video? From your reply it sounds like you didn't. The point of the video mainly is that if you use E-15 you will VOID your car's warranty. Is E-15 intended for flex fuel vehicles? Sure. But how many everyday car owners really understand the ins and outs of what gas is and isn't ok for their car? How many people who are used to using E10 will see E15 and think "oh, I love being GREEN and it's a few cents less so I'll use that!!" in their NON-flex fuel car and void their warranty? And if the automakers listed in the new story are stating it will void the warranty you can be sure there is at least enough concern from the effects of E15 that they do not want to be on the hook for the repair bills. No where in the video did
I see a claim about the fuel left in the pumps hose - where did you get that from??? As to E10 being OK, perhaps you are happy with it, all I know is that it ruins gas mileage and provides ZERO benefit in cars built since catalytic converters were made mandatory. ZERO benefit, no reduction in emissions compared to the same cat equipped car running straight gas. But it does have less energy content and WILL reduce your gas milage. It will also damage the fuel system parts more than if there was no ethanol in the gas although at the 10% level is not usually a problem that happens fast enough that you can pin it directly on the E10. Is AAA part of your "conspiracy" allegation? From their website... A AAA survey last fall found that only 12 million out of the 240 million light-duty vehicles on the roads were approved by manufacturers to use E15. Thirteen manufacturers stated that the use of E15 may void warranty coverage. AAA’s automotive engineering experts believe that sustained use of E15 could result in costly problems such as accelerated engine wear and failure, fuel-system damage and false “check engine” lights in some cars. An overwhelming 95 percent of consumers surveyed by AAA were not familiar with E15, indicating a strong likelihood of consumer confusion leading to misfueling. Jim Delton
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