Hi All,
I've been reading (and enjoying) the advise so far.
Last night I did a compression check and got 125-140 in all cylinders. So
basically the pistons are still in one piece. No need to replace the motor
(yet).
I inspected the seals on the air cleaner lid and base. They seem to be
intact and tension is on them when assembled. (I didn't do a "smoke" test
for leaks yet).
I removed and cleaned the fuel nozzle(s), as it was so easy to do, and they
looked so bad (brown to black) They are definitely clean and flowing now.
Result = The car now fires easily, fairly smoothly, and dies. It is acting
just like it has a bad airflow sensor on a "normal" EFI system.
My next step in to run the car without the air cleaner lid and see what
happens (I ran out of daylight before I could do it last night).
Also, I was looking at my fuse box (power windows weren't working). I did
not notice any type of diagram to list what fuses go where. I did have at
least one fuse missing (power window) and I replaced it with a 30amp
(probably too high an amperage, but OK to check the circuit). Well BOTH
power windows work now, I'm afraid to think why the fuse was pulled. I'm
sure I'll find out soon enough.
My next questions is this: If I jump the wires to fool the computer to make
the engine run with the air cleaner lid off and it runs, does this mean that
the airflow meter is bad, or something else?
I'm really hoping to get this car actually running over this weekend, so
any/all help and advise will be taken.
Thanks again to all that have contributed so far.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Benjamin" <DickB@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> You'll get a lot of advice about engine swaps for these cars. I am
unaware
> of anything with double the HP that would fit and would pass our friendly
> smog specs. I too suffer with our Southern California smog rules.
>
> Dick Benjamin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul A. Feeney <paFeeney@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
>
>
> > Hi Dick,
> >
> > I think I'll take your advise on the compression check before I invest
any
> > more time/money into the car. If the motor is bad, I'll probably just
yank
> > it out and replace with something a little more "fun". 135HP doesn't
sound
> > too good to me. This would be such a nice highway cruiser with about
250HP
> > or more. Nobody likes to get tailgated by kids in Hondas covered with
> > stickers after all. Have you heard of anyone doing an engine swap into
one
> > of these cars? Keep in mind that I'm in So. California, so it will HAVE
TO
> > pass smog. (we're cool on engine swaps as long as the engine is newer
than
> > the car, and 100% of the smog for the engine follows into the car,
> including
> > diagnostics).
> >
> > I'll check, and probably change the oil tonight. At the very least I
would
> > guess that the cylinders are getting "washed" with gas at this point.
> You're
> > right on when you said I'm getting too much fuel. That's why checking
the
> > pumps/filters hasn't been a priority for me.
> >
> > I'll check all the connections, take them apart, clean them with
> electronic
> > parts cleaner, apply a little dielectric grease and re-connect checking
> > continuity on the pins. I don't mind doing this type of work, as long as
I
> > only have to do it once (do it right the first time).
> >
> > Thanks again for the info, I may check a lot of this tonight and report
my
> > findings in the morning.
> >
> > Paul
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dick Benjamin" <DickB@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> >
> >
> > > These make great daily drivers, as they are superbly comfortable and
> quiet
> > > on the road, and get very good mileage. What they are not, though, is
> > > performers. The are very slow off the line, with the 2:20 rear end,
and
> > > 4500 pounds being pulled by a 135 HP engine. Once you get them
rolling,
> > > however, they will cruise all day at 75 and give you 22 MPG or better
> > doing
> > > it.
> > >
> > > You can make a good air cleaner gasket with closed cell foam, as used
in
> > > weather-strip (it must be closed cell foam, however, anything else
will
> > let
> > > the air sneak in there without passing the air flow sensor. This
drives
> > the
> > > computer mad!
> > >
> > > The EFI is throttle body injection, with 4 nozzles feeding 2 cylinders
> > each
> > > at low flow rates, and 4 more chiming in for more fuel demand. The
> > nozzles
> > > are controlled by fuel pressure, with the low flow nozzles opening
below
> > 20
> > > PSI and the higher flow coming on stream above that. This function is
> > > entirely controlled by pressure operated mechanical plungers in the
> > > plumbing - no electronics involved at all here. The system monitors
> RPM,
> > > throttle position, fuel and air flow, temperature of fuel, air and
> > coolant,
> > > time since startup, the O2 content of the exhaust, fuel pressure,
brake
> > > pedal position, ignition key position and perhaps the phase of the
moon,
> > and
> > > compares this data with pre-programmed and memory data to set the flow
> of
> > > fuel. The computer is basically an analog in - analog out device, so
it
> > is
> > > not much like our modern digital controlled devices at all.
> > >
> > > There is no provision for on board diagnostics. The dealers were
> supplied
> > > with a test set, which is little more than an box full of switches and
> > > meters. Some on the IML have this device, but I have not bothered
with
> > > one, as I can learn quite a bit about what is going on with normal
test
> > > equipment.
> > >
> > > Chrysler dealers sometimes have parts, more often you have to run your
> > needs
> > > on PartsVoice.com to see who can come up with what you need. You will
> > need
> > > part numbers, of course.
> > >
> > > The fuel filters are under the car near the passenger's door hinge
post.
> > > They are very normal in-line filters, with good availability. Take
the
> > old
> > > ones into NAPA and match them up.
> > >
> > > I think your problem is more likely to be too much fuel than not
enough.
> > If
> > > you have flames coming out the breather, though, you may a have a
> cracked
> > > piston or worse. I think it's time to do a compression check! It
also
> > > would be a good idea to smell the dip stick - if you smell gas, you
have
> a
> > > bomb waiting to go off there! Drain the crankcase and refill it
before
> > > doing anything else to the car.
> > >
> > > Dick Benjamin
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Paul A. Feeney <paFeeney@xxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:38 AM
> > > Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Dick,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the great advise. I'm planning on looking at the car this
> > > weekend
> > > > (after tuning-up my 68). If the lid gaskets are bad, is this
something
> a
> > > > dealer would still have, or should I improvise with a generic seal?
I
> > > > bought this car for next to nothing ($250, it sat for about 5 years)
> and
> > I
> > > > don't mind putting a few bucks into it as I plan to use it as a
daily
> > > driver
> > > > (kind of). Heck if this engine doesn't work out, I was thinking a
> newer
> > > > Magnum 360, or even a V-10 from a truck.
> > > >
> > > > At the parts store I ran into a little confusion on fuel filters.
It
> > > listed
> > > > two types, one seemed to be "normal" with a simply "in" and "out",
but
> > the
> > > > other had a third, smaller in/outlet. I haven't crawled under the
car
> > yet
> > > to
> > > > check what's under there, but I found it interesting, and confusing.
> > > >
> > > > I couldn't hear any pumps, pumping, but the engine is obviously
> getting
> > > > fuel, as it stinks of gas and will somewhat start. Ever seen fire
> coming
> > > > from the crankcase breather??? (the breather hose is gone, but I've
> > > > completely sealed the inlet the air cleaner housing until I get a
new
> > one)
> > > >
> > > > I have a sound understanding of modern fuel injection (which may
hurt
> my
> > > > chance of understanding this car). I read about the fuel "nozzles".
Is
> > > this
> > > > just a type of fuel distribution system, all feeding from a
> centralized,
> > > > single injector?
> > > >
> > > > Also, is there any type of electronic self-diagnosis system on these
> > cars?
> > > > Even my 97 Ram (with OBD-II) can be accessed by cycling the key.
> > > >
> > > > Are parts still available at the dealer for these cars, or has
> Chrysler
> > > left
> > > > us out in the cold (again)?
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate any/all help with this project.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dick Benjamin" <DickB@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:05 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Paul;
> > > > >
> > > > > This may take a while, and is going to lead you into doing some
> > research
> > > > > yourself. As a first step, though, remove the new air filter
> element
> > > and
> > > > > reinstall the lid tightly, just to make sure you don't have an air
> > leak
> > > > > induced by a poor fitting air filter element.
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming this is not going to help, the next step is to carefully
> > > inspect
> > > > > all the wiring and vacuum hose tubing, making sure all the
harnesses
> > are
> > > > > completely plugged in with all pins and connectors intact, and
that
> > the
> > > > > vacuum hose routing is exactly in compliance with the information
on
> > the
> > > > > passenger inner fender sticker (it's near the hood hinge and may
be
> > > quite
> > > > > dirty, but it is there.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming you haven't yet found a problem, read up in the IML
> archives
> > > > about
> > > > > how to run the car with the air cleaner lid off. Basically, you
> need
> > to
> > > > > fool the computer into ignoring the air flow sensor by telling it
> that
> > > you
> > > > > are cranking to start the engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you haven't been using the IML archives long, you may need to
> > search
> > > > > around a bit before finding the step by step procedure, but it is
> > there,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > sure, because I wrote it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Once you know the trick for starting the car with the lid off,
have
> a
> > > > helper
> > > > > try to start it while you watch the fuel plumbing lines inside the
> air
> > > > > cleaner assembly. I'm guessing you will see some liquid fuel
> leaking
> > > > from
> > > > > somewhere, probably the fuel pressure switch tubing, or the nozzle
> > > > assembly
> > > > > valves. This is all very simple stuff, which you can remove,
> > > disassemble
> > > > > and clean with spray type carburetor cleaner, so that you get all
8
> > > > nozzles
> > > > > spraying nicely. Then put it back together and reassemble the
lid
> > > etc.,
> > > > to
> > > > > see if you've fixed anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > If still no go, take a very close look at all the other air seals
in
> > the
> > > > > whole top of engine hardware. Pay particular attention to the
lid
> > > > gasket,
> > > > > and to the one beneath the hydraulic support assembly.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't have the two manuals for this car, get busy on eBay
or
> > from
> > > a
> > > > > literature dealer and find yourself a set, these are mandatory for
> > > > > maintaining this car.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't give up - just listen to those of us who have fought our way
> > > through
> > > > > all the sin previously committed by the unwashed in trying to get
> > these
> > > > cars
> > > > > to run. Once you have it all back to normal, you will be
delighted
> in
> > > the
> > > > > way the car starts, runs, and drives!
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt this is enough information to solve the whole series of
> > > > complaints,
> > > > > but see if you can plow through the above and report back to us.
> > There
> > > > are
> > > > > 5 or 6 people on here who know a lot about these cars, and one of
us
> > > will
> > > > > jump in with good advice on every point.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't already have one, it is a good idea to pick up a
decent
> > > > analog
> > > > > type volt-ohmmeter. Radio Shack has an adequate one for under
$50.
> > > > >
> > > > > As someone else has implied, 90% of the engine problems on these
> cars
> > > are
> > > > > blamed on "that damned EFI", and when it's all said and done,
about
> > 10%
> > > of
> > > > > them turn out to be actually related to its being an EFI car.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dick Benjamin
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Paul A. Feeney <paFeeney@xxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:09 PM
> > > > > Subject: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just bought this car a few weeks ago and have since joined the
> > club.
> > > > > > Thanks for welcoming me. I've enjoyed the club so much in the
last
> > > > couple
> > > > > of
> > > > > > weeks that I've already gone out and bought a 68 Crown Coupe
(runs
> > > > great,
> > > > > > 99.9% original from a man who bought it in 69).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, about my non-running 82. It has the EFI still installed.
I
> > > just
> > > > > put
> > > > > > new plugs in it and a new 0-2 sensor, fresh gas, new air filter
> and
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > > > battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Result- If I crank the car FOREVER, it will fire and immediately
> > > stall.
> > > > If
> > > > > I
> > > > > > give it some gas (step on pedal) as it fires it will increase
RPM
> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > > die within a couple of seconds. If I then crank it again it will
> > fire
> > > > and
> > > > > > stay running (very rough) as long as I keep my foot on the gas.
> WAY
> > > DOWN
> > > > > on
> > > > > > the gas. It will NOT idle, not even close, it will run above
about
> > > 2,500
> > > > > rpm
> > > > > > only and it sounds like it's running on 5-6 cylinders only.
> Actually
> > > it
> > > > > > feels like the plug wires are on wrong (they're not, I checked).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where should I start? I've read briefly through the info on club
> > > > > > website but most of it deals with vehicles that idle rough or
have
> > low
> > > > > > power. Mine just isn't drivable at all. I'm sure that I'm not
the
> > only
> > > > > > person to come across this problem as I see 81-83 Imps for sale
> > cheap
> > > > all
> > > > > > the time that "don't run". This car is extremely clean. No
dents,
> no
> > > > rust,
> > > > > > great interior. As soon as I get it running it will go out for a
> > fresh
> > > > > coat
> > > > > > of paint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure all be back
online
> > > about
> > > > > > things on my 68 as I learn more about it. I've already had the
> VERY
> > > > > painful
> > > > > > experience of taking a power window motor off the regulator
(watch
> > > out,
> > > > > this
> > > > > > thing is like a bear trap as the spring will snap it closed on
> your
> > > > hand,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > got ten stitches out of it)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul A. Feeney
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 82 Lt Blue EFI Wire Wheel
> > > > > > 68 Black Crown Coupe
> > > > > > 97 Dodge Ram 3500 (tow rig)
> > > > > > 82 Maserati Quattroporte (at least it has a Mopar Trans,
starter,
> > and
> > > > A/C)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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