----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Benjamin <DickB@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> You'll get a lot of advice about engine swaps for these cars. I am
unaware
> of anything with double the HP that would fit and would pass our friendly
> smog specs. I too suffer with our Southern California smog rules.
>
> Dick Benjamin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul A. Feeney <paFeeney@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:19 PM
> Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
>
>
> > Hi Dick,
> >
> > I think I'll take your advise on the compression check before I invest
any
> > more time/money into the car. If the motor is bad, I'll probably just
yank
> > it out and replace with something a little more "fun". 135HP doesn't
sound
> > too good to me. This would be such a nice highway cruiser with about
250HP
> > or more. Nobody likes to get tailgated by kids in Hondas covered with
> > stickers after all. Have you heard of anyone doing an engine swap into
one
> > of these cars? Keep in mind that I'm in So. California, so it will HAVE
TO
> > pass smog. (we're cool on engine swaps as long as the engine is newer
than
> > the car, and 100% of the smog for the engine follows into the car,
> including
> > diagnostics).
> >
> > I'll check, and probably change the oil tonight. At the very least I
would
> > guess that the cylinders are getting "washed" with gas at this point.
> You're
> > right on when you said I'm getting too much fuel. That's why checking
the
> > pumps/filters hasn't been a priority for me.
> >
> > I'll check all the connections, take them apart, clean them with
> electronic
> > parts cleaner, apply a little dielectric grease and re-connect checking
> > continuity on the pins. I don't mind doing this type of work, as long as
I
> > only have to do it once (do it right the first time).
> >
> > Thanks again for the info, I may check a lot of this tonight and report
my
> > findings in the morning.
> >
> > Paul
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dick Benjamin" <DickB@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> >
> >
> > > These make great daily drivers, as they are superbly comfortable and
> quiet
> > > on the road, and get very good mileage. What they are not, though, is
> > > performers. The are very slow off the line, with the 2:20 rear end,
and
> > > 4500 pounds being pulled by a 135 HP engine. Once you get them
rolling,
> > > however, they will cruise all day at 75 and give you 22 MPG or better
> > doing
> > > it.
> > >
> > > You can make a good air cleaner gasket with closed cell foam, as used
in
> > > weather-strip (it must be closed cell foam, however, anything else
will
> > let
> > > the air sneak in there without passing the air flow sensor. This
drives
> > the
> > > computer mad!
> > >
> > > The EFI is throttle body injection, with 4 nozzles feeding 2 cylinders
> > each
> > > at low flow rates, and 4 more chiming in for more fuel demand. The
> > nozzles
> > > are controlled by fuel pressure, with the low flow nozzles opening
below
> > 20
> > > PSI and the higher flow coming on stream above that. This function is
> > > entirely controlled by pressure operated mechanical plungers in the
> > > plumbing - no electronics involved at all here. The system monitors
> RPM,
> > > throttle position, fuel and air flow, temperature of fuel, air and
> > coolant,
> > > time since startup, the O2 content of the exhaust, fuel pressure,
brake
> > > pedal position, ignition key position and perhaps the phase of the
moon,
> > and
> > > compares this data with pre-programmed and memory data to set the flow
> of
> > > fuel. The computer is basically an analog in - analog out device, so
it
> > is
> > > not much like our modern digital controlled devices at all.
> > >
> > > There is no provision for on board diagnostics. The dealers were
> supplied
> > > with a test set, which is little more than an box full of switches and
> > > meters. Some on the IML have this device, but I have not bothered
with
> > > one, as I can learn quite a bit about what is going on with normal
test
> > > equipment.
> > >
> > > Chrysler dealers sometimes have parts, more often you have to run your
> > needs
> > > on PartsVoice.com to see who can come up with what you need. You will
> > need
> > > part numbers, of course.
> > >
> > > The fuel filters are under the car near the passenger's door hinge
post.
> > > They are very normal in-line filters, with good availability. Take
the
> > old
> > > ones into NAPA and match them up.
> > >
> > > I think your problem is more likely to be too much fuel than not
enough.
> > If
> > > you have flames coming out the breather, though, you may a have a
> cracked
> > > piston or worse. I think it's time to do a compression check! It
also
> > > would be a good idea to smell the dip stick - if you smell gas, you
have
> a
> > > bomb waiting to go off there! Drain the crankcase and refill it
before
> > > doing anything else to the car.
> > >
> > > Dick Benjamin
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Paul A. Feeney <paFeeney@xxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:38 AM
> > > Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi Dick,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the great advise. I'm planning on looking at the car this
> > > weekend
> > > > (after tuning-up my 68). If the lid gaskets are bad, is this
something
> a
> > > > dealer would still have, or should I improvise with a generic seal?
I
> > > > bought this car for next to nothing ($250, it sat for about 5 years)
> and
> > I
> > > > don't mind putting a few bucks into it as I plan to use it as a
daily
> > > driver
> > > > (kind of). Heck if this engine doesn't work out, I was thinking a
> newer
> > > > Magnum 360, or even a V-10 from a truck.
> > > >
> > > > At the parts store I ran into a little confusion on fuel filters.
It
> > > listed
> > > > two types, one seemed to be "normal" with a simply "in" and "out",
but
> > the
> > > > other had a third, smaller in/outlet. I haven't crawled under the
car
> > yet
> > > to
> > > > check what's under there, but I found it interesting, and confusing.
> > > >
> > > > I couldn't hear any pumps, pumping, but the engine is obviously
> getting
> > > > fuel, as it stinks of gas and will somewhat start. Ever seen fire
> coming
> > > > from the crankcase breather??? (the breather hose is gone, but I've
> > > > completely sealed the inlet the air cleaner housing until I get a
new
> > one)
> > > >
> > > > I have a sound understanding of modern fuel injection (which may
hurt
> my
> > > > chance of understanding this car). I read about the fuel "nozzles".
Is
> > > this
> > > > just a type of fuel distribution system, all feeding from a
> centralized,
> > > > single injector?
> > > >
> > > > Also, is there any type of electronic self-diagnosis system on these
> > cars?
> > > > Even my 97 Ram (with OBD-II) can be accessed by cycling the key.
> > > >
> > > > Are parts still available at the dealer for these cars, or has
> Chrysler
> > > left
> > > > us out in the cold (again)?
> > > >
> > > > I appreciate any/all help with this project.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again,
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dick Benjamin" <DickB@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 9:05 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Paul;
> > > > >
> > > > > This may take a while, and is going to lead you into doing some
> > research
> > > > > yourself. As a first step, though, remove the new air filter
> element
> > > and
> > > > > reinstall the lid tightly, just to make sure you don't have an air
> > leak
> > > > > induced by a poor fitting air filter element.
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming this is not going to help, the next step is to carefully
> > > inspect
> > > > > all the wiring and vacuum hose tubing, making sure all the
harnesses
> > are
> > > > > completely plugged in with all pins and connectors intact, and
that
> > the
> > > > > vacuum hose routing is exactly in compliance with the information
on
> > the
> > > > > passenger inner fender sticker (it's near the hood hinge and may
be
> > > quite
> > > > > dirty, but it is there.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming you haven't yet found a problem, read up in the IML
> archives
> > > > about
> > > > > how to run the car with the air cleaner lid off. Basically, you
> need
> > to
> > > > > fool the computer into ignoring the air flow sensor by telling it
> that
> > > you
> > > > > are cranking to start the engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you haven't been using the IML archives long, you may need to
> > search
> > > > > around a bit before finding the step by step procedure, but it is
> > there,
> > > > I'm
> > > > > sure, because I wrote it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Once you know the trick for starting the car with the lid off,
have
> a
> > > > helper
> > > > > try to start it while you watch the fuel plumbing lines inside the
> air
> > > > > cleaner assembly. I'm guessing you will see some liquid fuel
> leaking
> > > > from
> > > > > somewhere, probably the fuel pressure switch tubing, or the nozzle
> > > > assembly
> > > > > valves. This is all very simple stuff, which you can remove,
> > > disassemble
> > > > > and clean with spray type carburetor cleaner, so that you get all
8
> > > > nozzles
> > > > > spraying nicely. Then put it back together and reassemble the
lid
> > > etc.,
> > > > to
> > > > > see if you've fixed anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > If still no go, take a very close look at all the other air seals
in
> > the
> > > > > whole top of engine hardware. Pay particular attention to the
lid
> > > > gasket,
> > > > > and to the one beneath the hydraulic support assembly.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't have the two manuals for this car, get busy on eBay
or
> > from
> > > a
> > > > > literature dealer and find yourself a set, these are mandatory for
> > > > > maintaining this car.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don't give up - just listen to those of us who have fought our way
> > > through
> > > > > all the sin previously committed by the unwashed in trying to get
> > these
> > > > cars
> > > > > to run. Once you have it all back to normal, you will be
delighted
> in
> > > the
> > > > > way the car starts, runs, and drives!
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt this is enough information to solve the whole series of
> > > > complaints,
> > > > > but see if you can plow through the above and report back to us.
> > There
> > > > are
> > > > > 5 or 6 people on here who know a lot about these cars, and one of
us
> > > will
> > > > > jump in with good advice on every point.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you don't already have one, it is a good idea to pick up a
decent
> > > > analog
> > > > > type volt-ohmmeter. Radio Shack has an adequate one for under
$50.
> > > > >
> > > > > As someone else has implied, 90% of the engine problems on these
> cars
> > > are
> > > > > blamed on "that damned EFI", and when it's all said and done,
about
> > 10%
> > > of
> > > > > them turn out to be actually related to its being an EFI car.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dick Benjamin
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Paul A. Feeney <paFeeney@xxxxxxxx>
> > > > > To: <mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 12:09 PM
> > > > > Subject: IML: 82 Imp EFI won't start/run
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just bought this car a few weeks ago and have since joined the
> > club.
> > > > > > Thanks for welcoming me. I've enjoyed the club so much in the
last
> > > > couple
> > > > > of
> > > > > > weeks that I've already gone out and bought a 68 Crown Coupe
(runs
> > > > great,
> > > > > > 99.9% original from a man who bought it in 69).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyway, about my non-running 82. It has the EFI still installed.
I
> > > just
> > > > > put
> > > > > > new plugs in it and a new 0-2 sensor, fresh gas, new air filter
> and
> > a
> > > > new
> > > > > > battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Result- If I crank the car FOREVER, it will fire and immediately
> > > stall.
> > > > If
> > > > > I
> > > > > > give it some gas (step on pedal) as it fires it will increase
RPM
> > and
> > > > then
> > > > > > die within a couple of seconds. If I then crank it again it will
> > fire
> > > > and
> > > > > > stay running (very rough) as long as I keep my foot on the gas.
> WAY
> > > DOWN
> > > > > on
> > > > > > the gas. It will NOT idle, not even close, it will run above
about
> > > 2,500
> > > > > rpm
> > > > > > only and it sounds like it's running on 5-6 cylinders only.
> Actually
> > > it
> > > > > > feels like the plug wires are on wrong (they're not, I checked).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where should I start? I've read briefly through the info on club
> > > > > > website but most of it deals with vehicles that idle rough or
have
> > low
> > > > > > power. Mine just isn't drivable at all. I'm sure that I'm not
the
> > only
> > > > > > person to come across this problem as I see 81-83 Imps for sale
> > cheap
> > > > all
> > > > > > the time that "don't run". This car is extremely clean. No
dents,
> no
> > > > rust,
> > > > > > great interior. As soon as I get it running it will go out for a
> > fresh
> > > > > coat
> > > > > > of paint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure all be back
online
> > > about
> > > > > > things on my 68 as I learn more about it. I've already had the
> VERY
> > > > > painful
> > > > > > experience of taking a power window motor off the regulator
(watch
> > > out,
> > > > > this
> > > > > > thing is like a bear trap as the spring will snap it closed on
> your
> > > > hand,
> > > > > I
> > > > > > got ten stitches out of it)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul A. Feeney
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 82 Lt Blue EFI Wire Wheel
> > > > > > 68 Black Crown Coupe
> > > > > > 97 Dodge Ram 3500 (tow rig)
> > > > > > 82 Maserati Quattroporte (at least it has a Mopar Trans,
starter,
> > and
> > > > A/C)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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