From: imperial67@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Reply-To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: IML: In defense of "customs"
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:55:07 -0400 (EDT)
My '67 Crown has manual crank vent windows. They were optional on the base
"Sedan" (no "Custom" after '63, and the base model was re-introduced with
no trim level name for '67) and the Crown models, perhaps even the
LeBarons.
Customs were indeed a lower trim level. In fact, in '63, a New Yorker Salon
had a base MSRP higher than an Imperial Custom (and its level equipment
justified it). So while you could load up a Plymouth with many luxury
features and make it a pricey model from a low-end brand, the entry-level
models from the luxury brands (Cadillac had them, too) were a way to let
buyer step up into the big leagues in the hopes that next time, as their
successes in life allowed, they'd add more options. Granted, the Customs
already had the engineering benefits, size and image that the LeBarons came
with, so a base Imperial, even with few options, was arguably still a
better car than a modestly optioned Chrysler.
Chris in LA
67 Crown
78 NYB Salon
-----Original Message-----
From: Kenyon Wills <imperialist1960@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Aug 10, 2005 2:35 PM
To: mailing-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: IML: In defense of "customs"
OK.
Tell ya what: I'll retract the word "stripper" and I
do apologize if it offends, and no, I didn't stop to
consider that your car has a feminine name when I
chose that word.
What I don't see, Hugh, is a better definition of what
a custom is in your letter. OK. Fine.
I'm not writing this to push your button, but if
you're going to disagree with a definition, the least
you could do is offer a correction/corroboration for
your position after pointing out something that you
consider inaccurate, right? I try to, anyway.
SO:
Chrysler, it seems to me, would have had reason to
have created three model lines, however closely
related, so as to differentiate different price
points/choices/trim & accessory levels.
If a Custom has the same stuff that a Crown or LeBaron
did (besides the rear glass), why bother with the
model names at all? Riddle me that, Batman.
If there are three models, that are somehow sold as
being in order of good-better-best, then based on my
experience in our free-market system, one of the three
different models has to be the "base" or "least fully
optioned" or something akin to a upper car but without
the options (or "stripped of options" or "stripper",
an industry term that is relative to other similar
models, implying lower profit due to lower markup),
right? That's what I was getting at.
Last but not least: 1967 saw MANUAL cranks on the vent
windows on some "base" model Imperials, and I'm
talking about the general run of cars here, not just
the incredibly lovely 1957-59's.
I called Lowell, praying that he'd have a 57-59 in his
yard with a crank in it so that I could send you a
picture, but he agrees that no cranks were offered
till 1967.
-Kenyon Wills
instigator of the great window crank debate of '05
--- Hugh & Therese <hugtrees@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Kenyon wrote:
>
> Customs were stipper cars that had most extra-cost
> things deleted. There are cars running around with
> manual windows and no AC and so forth, which
> generally
> are the base models. Most dealers would not order
> something like this for stock on their lot, so those
> cars are the mark of someone that wanted the image
> but
> was VERY cost conscious - to the point of waiting
> for
> a car to be built to their specification to save
> money
> in many cases.
>
> With all due respect, I could not disagree more.
>
> My base model has everything a LeBaron has,
> including front and rear air.
> It is hardly a "stripper." The idea of a stripper
> Imperial is oxymoronic.
> The company would have frowned at the concept of its
> ultimate "desire"
> vehicle being built in this way. The original owner
> of my car hated
> leather, as well he might in Texas. I heard this
> from his niece. He had
> issues trying to get a Cadillac without leather plus
> the Mopar dealership in
> the small town, Seguin, supplied him with other
> vehicles for his several
> businesses plus a truck to pull his Tennessee
> "Walking Horses." To avoid
> leather, he purchased the base model. Otherwise it
> is one of the most
> loaded 58s ever made. Cost was not the issue at
> all.
>
> I have heard about manual windows but not during the
> 57 / 58 / 59 era. I'd
> be very interested to know who might have one or
> have seen one.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
>
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