The Forward Look Network
The Forward Look Network
Search | Statistics | User Listing Forums | Chat | eBay | Calendars | Albums | Skins | Language
You are logged in as a guest. ( logon | register )

Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
View previous thread :: View next thread
   Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Fender/VIN Tag and Broadcast Sheet DecodingMessage format
 
Icy '58
Posted 2023-05-31 5:21 AM (#629900)
Subject: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Hi.
I have been trying to look in different threads but I do not get this.

I understand the the Paint PNT 3XNX (White, suede brown, White) But what about the 3 in front of the XNX, No clue.

The Body BDY 412 is if I get i right, 4=Desoto, 1=Firesweep, 2=2d Hardtop ?

TRM, is that the interior?

Is it any other intresting facts in this one? ie factory, production date, equippment?

The car is a -58 Firesweep 2d hardtop/sportsman with Power Steering and Power Brakes. two ext mirrors, Radio etc.


The whole tag have a slightly different layout than many examples that is shown in other threads.



Edited by Icy '58 2023-05-31 5:26 AM




(VIN tag firesweep.jpg)



(desoto nersizad.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments VIN tag firesweep.jpg (244KB - 74 downloads)
Attachments desoto nersizad.jpg (161KB - 68 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-05-31 10:05 AM (#629902 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
Very nice car. Congrats.

As an aside, I've actually been to Lulea, back in 1976. It was summer so all sun all the time. The people that I stayed with had a huge water tank in the basement that held hot water that was heated during off peak times (via nuclear power plant if I remember correctly) and then the water was circulated through the house radiators as needed.

Back to your car.

First of all, Firesweeps were based on the Dodge chassis (shorter wheel base than the full size Desotos and engines were Dodge, not Desoto). All good. Not to worry. But that explains why your car's cowl data tag looks (to me) like a Dodge cowl data tag.

What I see from the tag was that your car was scheduled to be built on October 8th, 1957 so pretty early in the model year. You didn't say but I think your car has a 2 spd Powerflite automatic (that is the 292 code).

frwl (Igor) will be around to fill in the other info.

I think the 3 in the paint code says something about flipping the normal order of the paint code (but I am not sure what/how). Igor?



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-05-31 10:07 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-05-31 1:20 PM (#629910 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
The optional tag codes stamped on the data plate in the middle row are not match to the order codes!
From the left to the right:

Tag Code 292 = Order Code 292 = Powerflite 2 Speed Automatic Transmission
Tag Code 305 = Order Code 345 = Heater with Defroster
Tag Code 312 = Order Code 302 = Power Brakes
Tag Code 395 = no info yet; it is located in the accessory group slot, but there is no group 315 on the 1958 DeSoto!
Tag Code 462 = Order Code 412 = Sweep Molding with Color Insert
Tag Code 486 = Order Code 466 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
Tag Code 512 = Order Code 562 = Sold Car – dealer has placed order for customer with cash in hand
Tag Code 605 = Order Code 625 = Delivery Route – by Truck

SCHEDULE A 1008 05705 = Scheduled on October 08, 1957 (1008) as Dave listed above
BDY 412 = DeSoto (4), Firesweep (1), Two Door Hardtop (2)
PNT 3XNX = Pearl White Roof Color (X), Sand Body Color (N) and Pearl White Roof Insert or Sweep Color (X)
TRM 663 = Gray Vinyl and Gray Frontier Homespun Fabric; it’s was an optional Custom trim.
This upholstery was standard on Firedome Series and offered at extra cost on Firesweep Series…

The “3” in front of “XNX” is a Styling or Paint Scheme, order code 223.
1 = 221 = Paint Scheme – Monotone;
2 = 222 = Paint Scheme – Two Tones;
3 = 223 = Paint Scheme – Two Tones and Color Sweep.

For example, the paint code 1AAA is an all-black car; 2XAA is a white roof and black body including color sweep.
I don’t know why they did it: the paint code letters itself shows the paint scheme already; the number in front just duplicates it…




(1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.jpg (29KB - 74 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-05-31 1:36 PM (#629912 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Back to the tag code 395 – I’ve never seen “5” in this slot;
1958 Firesweeps were built on the Dodge Hamtramck Plant, 1958 Dodge has accessory group 315, 1958 DeSotos has not.
I can assume that the Dodge group might be installed on the early DeSoto Firesweeps;
Here is the listing of optional equipment Dodge accessory group 315;
I can see a right outside mirror and rear quarter stone shields on the picture you posted;
Does your car have all the rest equipment in this list?




(1958 Dodge Group 315.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1958 Dodge Group 315.jpg (29KB - 72 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-05-31 1:44 PM (#629913 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
The trim code 663 found at the mecum auction pictures:



(1.JPG)



(2.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.JPG (158KB - 73 downloads)
Attachments 2.JPG (151KB - 69 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-06-01 3:02 AM (#629924 - in reply to #629902)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
56D500boy - 2023-05-31 4:05 PM

Very nice car. Congrats.

As an aside, I've actually been to Lulea, back in 1976. It was summer so all sun all the time. The people that I stayed with had a huge water tank in the basement that held hot water that was heated during off peak times (via nuclear power plant if I remember correctly) and then the water was circulated through the house radiators as needed.



Nice that you have visited the north of Sweden. Luleå is commonly winning the "sun hour competition" between the Swedish citys during the summers. (in the competition the midnightsun is not counted. butt still deliver a lot of light all night long.) But to heat up tanks with electricity was a sollution during the seventies for people that alredy had tanks from firewood heating. Later on, the electricity price system with cheaper night prices and the trend changed. But now with optimization of the current it might be a possible new trend again

I called the colour as Suede brown out of this colour page:
https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?year=1958&con=y&ma...

While there are also a cross referens to the dodge "sand" colour that is named according to the Desoto paint sheet that you posted. (Pardon my language, but is "Poly." in Sand Poly. the same as metallic?)
https://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?ditzler=21436&rows...

The both colours have the comment "limited production" I have not seen any other Firesweep in this colour. (it is not a common car at all over here, but also referring to pics googled on the internet)






Edited by Icy '58 2023-06-01 5:14 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-06-01 3:30 AM (#629925 - in reply to #629910)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
frwl - 2023-05-31 7:20 PM

.
The optional tag codes stamped on the data plate in the middle row are not match to the order codes!
From the left to the right:

Tag Code 292 = Order Code 292 = Powerflite 2 Speed Automatic Transmission
Tag Code 305 = Order Code 345 = Heater with Defroster
Tag Code 312 = Order Code 302 = Power Brakes
Tag Code 395 = no info yet; it is located in the accessory group slot, but there is no group 315 on the 1958 DeSoto!
Tag Code 462 = Order Code 412 = Sweep Molding with Color Insert
Tag Code 486 = Order Code 466 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
Tag Code 512 = Order Code 562 = Sold Car – dealer has placed order for customer with cash in hand
Tag Code 605 = Order Code 625 = Delivery Route – by Truck

SCHEDULE A 1008 05705 = Scheduled on October 08, 1957 (1008) as Dave listed above
BDY 412 = DeSoto (4), Firesweep (1), Two Door Hardtop (2)
PNT 3XNX = Pearl White Roof Color (X), Sand Body Color (N) and Pearl White Roof Insert or Sweep Color (X)
TRM 663 = Gray Vinyl and Gray Frontier Homespun Fabric; it’s was an optional Custom trim.
This upholstery was standard on Firedome Series and offered at extra cost on Firesweep Series…

The “3” in front of “XNX” is a Styling or Paint Scheme, order code 223.
1 = 221 = Paint Scheme – Monotone;
2 = 222 = Paint Scheme – Two Tones;
3 = 223 = Paint Scheme – Two Tones and Color Sweep.

For example, the paint code 1AAA is an all-black car; 2XAA is a white roof and black body including color sweep.
I don’t know why they did it: the paint code letters itself shows the paint scheme already; the number in front just duplicates it…


Thaks for all your posts. Great information.

I had a bit trouble finding thoose codes looking at the VIN tag until I realized that I have to read the numbers vertical It was like turning on a light when I got this :D

Of all of the tag codes you found I can agree on almost all (or some of them is new to me but not have anything to say against them) exept that my car have a 3 speed torqueflite.

But since I do not have much of a history of the car it might been changed, if the tag says that it should have had an powerflite. One thing that always bothered me is that te backplate around the pushbuttons for the gearselector is in a different pattern than the backplate below the spedometer around the switches. That one have small desoto logos as a pattern. but the one aroung the pushbuttons have a checkered pattern. I can take a pic of that one to share.

frwl - 2023-05-31 7:36 PM

.
Back to the tag code 395 – I’ve never seen “5” in this slot;
1958 Firesweeps were built on the Dodge Hamtramck Plant, 1958 Dodge has accessory group 315, 1958 DeSotos has not.
I can assume that the Dodge group might be installed on the early DeSoto Firesweeps;
Here is the listing of optional equipment Dodge accessory group 315;
I can see a right outside mirror and rear quarter stone shields on the picture you posted;
Does your car have all the rest equipment in this list?



Regarding the 315 equipment list.

Electric clock. -I have it now, but I have mounted in the car. When I got the car it was a covering plate at that place.
Mirror-Outside Right. -Yes
Hood ornament. -Yes (I have not seen a Desoto without...)
Two tone Plastic Steering Wheel. -No, just a plain black one.
Rear quarter stone shields. -Yes (if it reffers to the one in the front of the rear wheel arcs)
Wheel Covers- Deluxe. Yes (I have the original rims and diagonal tyres with wheel covers. But is the covers of "delux" style? I post a pic for you to comment.
Bumper mounted exhaust ports. - Yes (is this not standard on all desotos?)


For the interior. The pics you posted is the same interior as mine, (but in much better shape). Some time in my cars history some one have replaced the fabric on the seat to an other one, Also made a new padding on the dash. It is a nice job, but the seam in the edge is not any I seen in other cars.
Compare the colour of the white garage walls to the one seen through the partly opened window it is obious that the windows is tinted.


I do not any much information of the past of the car. It is imported to Sweden in 2006, I bought it in 2007. The seller said that it is repainted in the beginning of the seventies. And the key have a tag that indicates that it have sometime been in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Sold new? Maybe?



Edited by Icy '58 2023-06-01 5:18 AM




(desoto inv.jpg)



(desoto key1.jpg)



(desoto key2.jpg)



(desoto original.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments desoto inv.jpg (89KB - 70 downloads)
Attachments desoto key1.jpg (60KB - 63 downloads)
Attachments desoto key2.jpg (67KB - 62 downloads)
Attachments desoto original.jpg (90KB - 69 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-01 9:56 AM (#629931 - in reply to #629925)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
You need to contact Danielle at Stellantis Historical Services with your car's VIN and proof of ownership (copy of your car's registration, etc) and get a copy of the IBM card.

When you get the card, post the image here and there are those like frwl, RDP and maybe even me who can help to decipher the build details even more.

danielle.szostak@stellantis.com

Danielle Szostak-Viers
Stellantis Historical Services
12501 Chrysler Freeway
CIMS 410-11-21
Detroit, MI 48288







Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-01 3:36 PM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-06-01 10:25 AM (#629934 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Thanks, I'll contact Danielle and see what I can get.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-06-01 12:59 PM (#629939 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
No doubts, its definitely your car was factory equipped with Powerflite transmission.
Its 100% that the transmission has been replaced (upgraded) later…

Order Code 291 = 3 Speed Manual Transmission
Order Code 292 = 2 Speed Automatic Transmission – Powerflite
Order Code 293 = 3 Speed Automatic Transmission – Torqueflite

It looks like my guessing about Dodge accessory group (that might be installed in your car) is wrong…
The build sheet would be very helpful for you and for me / us to further understanding a data plates decoding…
I’ll be waiting your post with build sheet picture in the future…

One more question, please: Does your car have factory Map Light / Glove Box Light?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-06-01 1:07 PM (#629940 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
And what about Back Up Lights, Dome Lights (located inside the car on the C-pillars), and Hand Brake Warning Light?
Are those items present on the car or not?

Does the car have the Drip Rail Mouldings? It is a narrow chrome mouldings on the roof rail…

May I see a rear view image of the car?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-01 5:28 PM (#629948 - in reply to #629934)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Icy '58 - 2023-06-01 7:25 AM
Thanks, I'll contact Danielle and see what I can get.


When you get the image of your 58 Firesweep's IBM card, I believe that it will look similar to the
1958 Dodge IBM card that is in this thread:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=78345&...

I would post that image but some people have taken offense to me doing so. :P

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Lancer Mike
Posted 2023-06-01 11:43 PM (#629949 - in reply to #629948)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



500020002000500100100
Location: The Mile High City

Hi, David:

You have a wonderful car!  If possible, please see if you can reach under the dashboard and try to feel the top of the cardboard glove box compartment.  It may be possible that a production broadcast sheet is taped there.  If so, you may be able to very carefully remove it.  That would be a great find if it is still there!

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Lancer Mike
Posted 2023-06-01 11:53 PM (#629950 - in reply to #629948)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



500020002000500100100
Location: The Mile High City

56D500boy - 2023-06-01 3:28 PM
I would post that image but some people have taken offense to me doing so. :P :)

??? What's the reasoning, Dave?  Good to understand others point-of-view - I'm sure I'm guilty of much worse infractions of interweb etiquette!

 

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-06-02 5:31 AM (#629952 - in reply to #629940)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
frwl - 2023-06-01 6:59 PM

One more question, please: Does your car have factory Map Light / Glove Box Light?


Nope. It is just a block off plate above the glovebox.

frwl - 2023-06-01 7:07 PM

.
And what about Back Up Lights, Dome Lights (located inside the car on the C-pillars), and Hand Brake Warning Light?
Are those items present on the car or not?

Does the car have the Drip Rail Mouldings? It is a narrow chrome mouldings on the roof rail…

May I see a rear view image of the car?


Back uo lights? is it the lights that lights up at the rear when put the gear in reverse? Yes. I am pretty sure that there are. But I will do a double check.
There are no dome lights on the C-pillars
No drip mouldings on the roof rail. But since the car have been repainted some time it could be possible that they have been removed if they ever have been present.

The car hav not been out oon the streets for a while. But I add a pic where parts of the rear is visible.

The picture of the push buttons shows the odd plate surrounding the buttons. What can the origin of that pattern be? (anyone that have a left over desoto pattern backplate?)



(desoto rear.jpg)



(desoto front.jpg)



(pushbutton.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments desoto rear.jpg (93KB - 63 downloads)
Attachments desoto front.jpg (121KB - 65 downloads)
Attachments pushbutton.jpg (74KB - 70 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ToMopar
Posted 2023-06-02 6:30 AM (#629953 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1160
10001002525
Location: D-70199 Heslach
The faceplate behind the pushbutton is from an 57 desoto. This indicates me the someone transfer your car with an 3-spd transmission from an 57 donor vehicle. Because I trust the cowl-tag an the decoding from "frwl"
Top of the page Bottom of the page
ToMopar
Posted 2023-06-02 6:33 AM (#629954 - in reply to #629952)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Elite Veteran

Posts: 1160
10001002525
Location: D-70199 Heslach
Icy '58 - 2023-06-02 10:31 AM
(anyone that have a left over desoto pattern backplate?)


ask http://www.kpusabil.se/ or http://www.pgbildelar.se/
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-06-02 9:36 AM (#629955 - in reply to #629953)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
ToMopar - 2023-06-02 3:30 AM
The faceplate behind the pushbutton is from an 57 desoto. This indicates me the someone transfer your car with an 3-spd transmission from an 57 donor vehicle. Because I trust the cowl-tag an the decoding from "frwl"


I agree, on all counts



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-02 10:16 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-06-02 12:23 PM (#629956 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
David: Thanks for replies and pictures you posted.
Here the reference how the’58 DeSoto Powerflite transmission faceplate should be:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1958-desoto-firesweep-convertible/

The data plate has confirmed this: you can see optional code 292 on it…




(1.JPG)



(2.JPG)



(3.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.JPG (157KB - 73 downloads)
Attachments 2.JPG (99KB - 74 downloads)
Attachments 3.JPG (113KB - 74 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-06-02 12:48 PM (#629957 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Of course, if you are interested:

Tag Code 292 = Order Code 292 = Powerflite 2 Speed Automatic Transmission
Tag Code 305 = Order Code 345 = Heater with Defroster
Tag Code 312 = Order Code 302 = Power Brakes
Tag Code 421 = Order Code 321 = Black Convertible Top Color
Tag Code 462 = Order Code 412 = Sweep Molding with Color Insert
Tag Code 501 = Order Code 501 = Undercoating and Underhood Pad
Tag Code 607 = Order Code 627 = Delivery Route – Dealer’s Own Truck

SCHEDULE A 1021 14715 = Scheduled on October 21, 1957 (1021)
BDY 415 = DeSoto (4), Firesweep (1), Convertible (5)
PNT 3PXP = Holly Red Roof Color (P), Pearl White Body Color (X) and Holly Red Sweep Color (P)
TRM 666 = Red Vinyl and Tan Frontier Homespun Fabric – Custom Trim

Don’t know why the roof color has coded by letter “P” on the convertible and it has a black soft top that coded separately…
And the “3” shows a two-tone color scheme with color sweep…

Like your car, she was built in October (but 21th), just later than yours;
Equipped with Powerflite, Heater, Power Brakes and Color Sweep as yours too;
No unknown tag code 395;
No Solex-tinted glass like on your car, all glass are clear



(1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.jpg (91KB - 75 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-06-02 1:12 PM (#629958 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
I think this information will be interesting for you...



(1.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.JPG (134KB - 68 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-06-02 1:14 PM (#629959 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Oops... wrong button...
Continuing:



(2.JPG)



(3.JPG)



(4.jpg)



(5.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 2.JPG (113KB - 77 downloads)
Attachments 3.JPG (158KB - 66 downloads)
Attachments 4.jpg (224KB - 65 downloads)
Attachments 5.JPG (107KB - 67 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-06-07 4:57 AM (#630043 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Thanks for all the informations.
I have sent an email to Danielle and got in return a sheet for me to complete.

I'll keep in touch as soon as I got the datasheet. But she said that the queeu is long at the moment.:/
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-07-10 5:33 PM (#630679 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
I have not got the answer from Stellantis yet.

But I put my hand in top of the glovebox and found this:D




Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_7870.jpeg (122KB - 66 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-07-10 5:35 PM (#630680 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
And with some careful brushing some dust went off. Some is possible to read.





Attachments
----------------
Attachments IMG_7872.jpeg (106KB - 64 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-07-10 8:17 PM (#630685 - in reply to #630680)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Icy '58 - 2023-07-10 2:35 PM
And with some careful brushing some dust went off. Some is possible to read.


Here is your 58 Firesweep (built at the Dodge Division) broadcast sheet and a 58 Dodge sheet (easier to read)

Looks like the handwriting of the colours was done by the same person. (???)


Edited by 56D500boy 2023-07-10 8:24 PM




(58FiresweepBroadcastSheet.jpg)



(58DodgeBuildSheet_1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 58FiresweepBroadcastSheet.jpg (148KB - 56 downloads)
Attachments 58DodgeBuildSheet_1.jpg (156KB - 57 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-07-11 11:41 AM (#630692 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Hello David; that’s great found!!! (and thanks to David F. for more readable copy)

625 = Delivery Route – by Truck
292 = Powerflite Transmission
301 = Power Steering
302 = Power Brakes
315 = Accessory Group No. 315 – still haven’t idea what is it
345 = Heater with Defroster
371 = Power Plants – standard engine with Dual Exhaust (standard on Firesweep Convertible)
401 = Left Outside Rear View Mirror (less Remote Control)
412 = Sweep Moldings – Dual with Color Insert
441 = Music Master Radio (less Rear Seat Speaker)
466 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
451 = Standard Wheel Covers (not Deluxe)
531 & 543 = 13 = 8.00 x 14 White Side Wall Rayon Tires
553 = 3.31 to 1 Rear Axle Ratio

I had wrong read the tag code 521 (I’ve described it as code 512 – Sold Car – earlier);
Actually the tag code 521 is an order code 371 – Dual Exhaust – sorry, my bad… I have confused the 51 and 52 columns…

Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-07-11 11:52 AM (#630694 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
and the cherry on the top:



(1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.jpg (238KB - 57 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-07-11 1:48 PM (#630697 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Awsome.
That is really exiting to see all this. I di know not really know what more I could get from the Chrysler archive. But it would be intresting to see what they could find.
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-07-11 2:26 PM (#630700 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
I’ve spotted a couple codes from your picture yet (I’ve highlighted those by red):

431 = Safety Cushion Instrument Panel
481 = Rear Quarter Stone Shields

So, the full listing should be viewing like this:

625 = Delivery Route – by Truck
292 = Powerflite Transmission
301 = Power Steering
302 = Power Brakes
315 = Accessory Group No. 315
345 = Heater with Defroster
371 = Power Plants – Dual Exhaust Only
401 = Left Outside Rear View Mirror (less Remote Control)
412 = Sweep Moldings – Dual with Color Insert
431 = Safety Cushion Instrument Panel
441 = Music Master Radio (less Rear Seat Speaker)
466 = Solex Tinted Glass – All Windows
451 = Standard Wheel Covers (not Deluxe)
481 = Rear Quarter Stone Shields
531 & 543 = 13 = 8.00 x 14 White Side Wall Rayon Tires
553 = 3.31 to 1 Rear Axle Ratio



(1.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.JPG (117KB - 63 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-07-11 2:40 PM (#630701 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Still opened question about the accessory group 315…
Why they did not include in the accessory group listing?
The 1, 2, 3, 6, 7 groups are present but there is no group 5…
Your car was built (scheduled) on October 8, 1957
This sheet from Ross Roy Data Book is a first revision which dated on January 30, 1958, and supersedes October 1957… see bottom of the picture – I've highlighted it by red..
Looks like the first (beginning) edition has accessory group 5, while the revised edition – has not…

Anyone here has the October 1957 accessory group sheet?
Anyway we will wait for decoding letter from Stellantis; they should be help…




(1.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.jpg (115KB - 62 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-07-11 2:51 PM (#630703 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Found in my database a body tag picture:
Its a Firesweep Sportsman 2 Door Hardtop (BODY 412) equipped with Torqueflite Trans (COLUMN CODE 293)
How much is it rare?



(1.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1.JPG (94KB - 59 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-07-11 2:54 PM (#630704 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
David: it has been built a three day later than yours on October 11, 1957!!!

SCHEDULE 1008 vs. 1011 on the data plate
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-08-17 10:54 AM (#631394 - in reply to #630704)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Hi.
Now i have got the data from Stellantis. Where on the engine can I find the number to check if the engine is the original one?

And it looks like it is build the 4th of october in 1957 not the 7th!

Is it any information on this doc that not is suitable for sharing please let me know and I will edit it. ie. I have covered the key number.




(IBM card.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments IBM card.jpg (180KB - 56 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2023-08-17 11:37 AM (#631395 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9724
500020002000500100100
Location: So. Cal
You neglected to cover the deck lid key number. I don't think there is any other sensitive information on there, including the VIN, unless you really want to hide it for some reason. You can find the engine number on a pad on the front, top, right of the engine, just beneath the distributor.

Edited by Powerflite 2023-08-17 11:39 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-08-17 12:38 PM (#631396 - in reply to #631394)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
Icy '58 - 2023-08-17 10:54 AM

And it looks like it is build the 4th of october in 1957 not the 7th!



Scheduled!!! Scheduled on October 8, 1956, while built on October 4, 1956.
“Scheduled” and “Built” are not the same things.

Did they give / send deciphering sheet?
Something like this, see below…

I’ve thought they will tell us what the Accessory Group No. 5 is mean…




(for example only.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments for example only.JPG (77KB - 57 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-08-18 2:58 AM (#631412 - in reply to #631396)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
The key for the lid is so different from the ignition/door-key that I am not so worried about that one. And in the trunk, its only the spare and som rags lying. Not any valuables

I did not get the decoding sheet.


Mail from Stellantis:

We are also unable to provide the decoding of the build records due to a high volume of requests and limited staffing. I apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you.


Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-08-18 3:07 AM (#631413 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
What do all the black "dots" all over the sheet. How are they supposed to be read? I can not really get any pattern or system. I guess that the numbers 0-9 in the margins have some thing to do with it.


Engine number :D

Edited by Icy '58 2023-08-18 3:33 AM




(engine number.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments engine number.jpg (231KB - 61 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-08-18 10:01 AM (#631416 - in reply to #631413)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
Icy '58 - 2023-08-18 12:07 AM
What do all the black "dots" all over the sheet. How are they supposed to be read? I can not really get any pattern or system. I guess that the numbers 0-9 in the margins have some thing to do with it.


Those aren't "dots". They are rectangular IBM keypunch holes in the IBM card. The punches relate to the numbers that are printed on the card but are not necessarily directly below
where the numbers get printed. The system used an electro-mechanical interpreter to read the key punches and then print the info.

I started a thread about interpreting IBM cards that you might want to review:

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=71137&...

In your case, here is an easy example:

Find the columns that are labeled "TRIM" at the bottom of the card, columns 26, 27 and 28.
Then move directly up. You will find punches in the 6, 6 and 3 positions.
Then look up to the top of the card to see the 663 that got printed. The same 663 ended up on your metal cowl data tag under TRM.

Here is an annotated 56 Dodge IBM card that I did for its owner.



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-08-18 10:04 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-08-18 2:05 PM (#631418 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.




(Upper Row.jpg)



(Middle Row.jpg)



(Serial Number.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Upper Row.jpg (98KB - 61 downloads)
Attachments Middle Row.jpg (86KB - 64 downloads)
Attachments Serial Number.jpg (86KB - 61 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-08-22 5:00 AM (#631486 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Thank you. That is the most educational way of explanation I've seen
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-08-22 9:45 AM (#631489 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
frwl - 2023-07-11 8:26 PM


So, the full listing should be viewing like this:

451 = Standard Wheel Covers (not Deluxe)



Spotted this row in the decoding that frwl did.

Is the standard wheel covers like the one in this clip? (is it that ones that is called dog dish?)
https://youtu.be/NMp2ih42gjw

Mine had the full wheel covers that is possible to see in one of the pictures above in this thread. Is thoose the standars ones or deluxe?


Edited by Icy '58 2023-08-22 9:46 AM
Top of the page Bottom of the page
56D500boy
Posted 2023-08-22 11:13 AM (#631494 - in reply to #631489)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9933
50002000200050010010010010025
Location: Lower Mainland BC
.
Steve Magnante is a well known Mopar knowledge person. That Firesweep is wearing the entry level "poverty" (or "dog dish") hub caps. Full wheel covers were optional,
as shown in the excerpt from a 58 Desoto brochure, below.

I am surprised (and SHOCKED!!) that Steve, at the end of the video, suggests that the front clip could be used on an Adventurer (one of the full sized Desotos). That would be wrong.
The front clip stamped metal on a Firesweep is allDodge. Hence those add-on chrome "eyebrows"

REFERENCES:

1. Full sized 58 Desoto Brochure (but no Firesweep) : https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/desoto/58deso/58deso.html

2. Another Brochure but this one does include Firesweep: http://oldcarbrochures.org/United%20States/DeSoto/1958_DeSoto/1958-...



Edited by 56D500boy 2023-08-22 11:32 AM




(58DesotoWheelCoversFromThe58Brochure.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 58DesotoWheelCoversFromThe58Brochure.jpg (149KB - 59 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2023-08-22 11:51 AM (#631496 - in reply to #631489)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9724
500020002000500100100
Location: So. Cal
Icy '58 - 2023-08-22 6:45 AM

451 = Standard Wheel Covers (not Deluxe)

Is the standard wheel covers like the one in this clip? (is it that ones that is called dog dish?)
https://youtu.be/NMp2ih42gjw

Mine had the full wheel covers that is possible to see in one of the pictures above in this thread. Is thoose the standars ones or deluxe?


Standard wheel covers are the full wheel covers, not the dog dish hubcaps, as Dave mentions. However, I have never seen, nor heard of deluxe wheelcovers for the '58 DeSoto. What would those look like? My only guess is that they would be something like the '58 Adventurer wheel covers. Anyone know?
Top of the page Bottom of the page
frwl
Posted 2023-08-22 3:55 PM (#631501 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: RE: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding


Expert

Posts: 1931
100050010010010010025
.
Can’t understand: where I’ve got the Wheel Covers with code 451…
The column 45 on the build sheet shows Heavy Duty Springs…

1958 Dodge:

511 = Stainless Steel Wheel Covers
512 = Stainless Steel Wheel Covers – Deluxe “Spinners”

1958 DeSoto:

511 = Stainless Steel Wheel Covers

There are NO Deluxe Wheel Covers on ’58 DeSoto!
Sorry, my bad…

Top of the page Bottom of the page
Icy '58
Posted 2023-08-24 4:07 AM (#631527 - in reply to #631494)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Member

Posts: 42
25
Location: Luleå, Sweden
56D500boy - 2023-08-22 5:13 PM

.
Steve Magnante is a well known Mopar knowledge person. That Firesweep is wearing the entry level "poverty" (or "dog dish") hub caps. Full wheel covers were optional,
as shown in the excerpt from a 58 Desoto brochure, below.

I am surprised (and SHOCKED!!) that Steve, at the end of the video, suggests that the front clip could be used on an Adventurer (one of the full sized Desotos). That would be wrong.
The front clip stamped metal on a Firesweep is allDodge. Hence those add-on chrome "eyebrows"

REFERENCES:

1. Full sized 58 Desoto Brochure (but no Firesweep) : https://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/desoto/58deso/58deso.html

2. Another Brochure but this one does include Firesweep: http://oldcarbrochures.org/United%20States/DeSoto/1958_DeSoto/1958-...



Hi.
Both of thoose brochures have Firesweep of all models included. Sportsman, 4d Sportsman, sedan, Chopper, Explorer and Conv. But the author of the broshure have made it best to not have any picture of the thing that make the Firesweep stand out of the rest, The front... I wonder why the Adventurer is completly left out of the brochure?

I am not sure that I can agree that the front clip of Firesweep is all Dodge. There seems to be a commonly spelled rule, that I do not understand, that the front of the Firesweep is Dodge, For the chassi, brakes etc I can agree, maybee the hood. But for the fenders, and other parts? maybe not.
I think that they look much different than the corresponding Dodge models. Not just the "eyebrows" I suspect that not many parts except for the lightbeams are interchangable between the brands. But they do have a chrome strip around the front that with a short look could be confusingly similar for a guy used to look at only chevys. :P :D


But for Chrysler Windsor and Firesweep. There we have the matching frontclip. But I agree that a Firesweep frontclip should not match to an Adventurer at all.



Edited by Icy '58 2023-08-24 4:14 AM




(FL58.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments FL58.jpg (57KB - 60 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Powerflite
Posted 2023-08-24 10:09 AM (#631530 - in reply to #629900)
Subject: Re: Desoto -58 Firesweep VIN decoding



Expert 5K+

Posts: 9724
500020002000500100100
Location: So. Cal
They are much more like a Dodge than a Firedome. Yes, the fenders are modified from the original Dodge version, but the front end of the Firesweep is all Dodge-based to remind everyone that the parts don't interchange with other DeSoto's. In fact, if you are looking for new sheetmetal and can't get original Firesweep or Windsor parts, you will need to look for Dodge parts, not other DeSoto parts. Even the hood ornament is different on the Firesweep because of this. The eyebrows are also from a Dodge - the Regal Lancer. Only the little trim piece added at the bottom is unique to the Firesweeep/Windsor.

Surprisingly, the front bumper/grille is the same as other DeSoto's, but they have an additional piece of metal at the top of the bumper that other DeSoto's don't have.




(58Regal Lancer Front.jpg)



(58 Firesweep Front End.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 58Regal Lancer Front.jpg (68KB - 57 downloads)
Attachments 58 Firesweep Front End.jpg (95KB - 55 downloads)
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Jump to page : 1
Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page]
Jump to forum :
Search this forum
Printer friendly version
E-mail a link to this thread

* * * This site contains affiliate links for which we may be compensated * * *


(Delete all cookies set by this site)