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Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-04-07 12:52 AM (#610764)
Subject: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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A while back I lucked into a complete power steering system from a 57 Plymouth with the intention of putting it in my 57 Dodge Suburban which has manual steering. The motor in my Suburban is a 325 poly. I pulled the motor and trans last fall mainly because the transmission was in desperate need of a rebuild but also I was going to rebuild the poly and clean up the engine bay. I got the transmission rebuilt and was getting ready to look for poly parts when we found a 1956 354 Hemi with stupid low miles on it so the poly can sit in the corner in case I ever need it again.

I was hoping you guys would send me some pics or illustrations of the front of the 56 Hemi with the power steering pump mounted because I have nothing to go by. None of the accessories were on the Hemi when I bought it. The power steering pump is made it such a way that it appears it will only work on the left side of the engine. So any visual aids would be awesome!

Thanks,

Wayne
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-04-07 2:04 AM (#610766 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: RE: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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In 1955 and 1956, all the Mopar Power Steering pumps were close-coupled with and driven by the generator which was on the left side of the engine. From what I have seen, if the car did NOT have power steering, the generator was mounted on the right side of the engine, on "ears" that were cast into the right exhaust manifold.

In 1957, from what I have seen, the PS pump was separated from the generator and located down low on the driver's (left) side of the engine.

One 1955 example:



On 1956 example (ignore the red circle, look at the generator):



Another 1956 example:






Edited by 56D500boy 2021-04-07 2:05 AM
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-04-07 10:49 AM (#610770 - in reply to #610766)
Subject: RE: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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56D500boy - 2021-04-06 11:04 PM
...From what I have seen, if the car did NOT have power steering, the generator was mounted on the right side of the engine, on "ears" that were cast into the right exhaust manifold.


Dave, the generator was never mounted on the right exhaust manifold on a 354 hemi motor. You are probably thinking of the "A" poly. The 354 hemi only had one location for the generator, and that is on the left, above the intake manifold. But yeah, the power steering was mounted to the back of it so Jaded isn't going to find factory mounts for a separate pump.

Your best bet is to purchase a '57-'58 power steering pump from a 392 hemi or 354 poly and use that setup if you don't like the generator mounted pump idea. To do this, though, you will need to change the water pump and get a separate crossover like in '57, because the '57 power steering pump mounted to the '57 style water pump ears.

Edited by Powerflite 2021-04-07 11:58 AM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-04-08 12:59 AM (#610797 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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Ok, what I have doesn't mount to the generator. In fact I had planned to mount an alternator on there. I may have to fabricate brackets to allow my pump to mount to the left side of the Hemi. I never would have guessed that the power steering system would mount to the generator. So....darn, this just got much more complicated.

The thing is, the manual get is garbage. So I really need to make this work. Any other photos would be great. Any ideas and suggestion would be great too. I don't want to put a generator on it. I could fabricate brackets to mount the alternator on the right side and do the same to mount the power steering on the left side.

But yea, darn, I was hoping this would be a bolt on...

Wayne
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-04-08 2:21 AM (#610800 - in reply to #610797)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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Since the recipient of the high pressure fluid is the power steering box located on the left frame rail, I am pretty sure that whatever you do, you probably would be better to have the pump on the left side and, therefore, the alternator on the right side where it's only wires that you have to run, not a high pressure hose and a post-steering box low pressure return hose.

Just sayin'



Edited by 56D500boy 2021-04-08 2:22 AM
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jaded13640
Posted 2021-04-12 1:07 AM (#610926 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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Maybe I didn't get my point across. That's EXACTLY what I want to do, put the power steering pump on the left and the alternator on the right. Maybe pics of 57, 58...who knows, would be a better example of how I might achieve this. There may even be and application where it was done that way and I could find the correct brackets to make my pump work on the drivers side. I already know how I'm going to do the alternator.

Thanks guys!

Wayne
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-04-12 2:24 AM (#610930 - in reply to #610926)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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Here is one solution that I would love to know how it was done: A 56 354 Spitfire Poly with an alternator driving the PS pump. I tried to find details but failed.





(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_0.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_2.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_3.jpg)



(1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_4.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_0.jpg (214KB - 90 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_2.jpg (233KB - 86 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_3.jpg (218KB - 86 downloads)
Attachments 1956-chrysler-windsor-withAlternatorDrivingThePSPump_4.jpg (221KB - 89 downloads)
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58coupe
Posted 2021-04-12 12:04 PM (#610935 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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I could be wrong but I believe that is a Leece-Neville alt. That might narrow your search.
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JedRhule
Posted 2021-09-11 11:07 AM (#614931 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)


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Posts: 10

Has anyone tried this WAI 12336N. 80 amp alternator with hydro pump.
It fits some GMC 1998 - 2002/
i am in the same situation as jaded13640, but I have a '56 with the poly heads.
I need to install A/C to use the car here in Florida.
Any suggestions?
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-09-11 12:40 PM (#614935 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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If you want to use that, you need to find out how much pressure the pump puts out. The original steering box is a low pressure setup.
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JedRhule
Posted 2021-09-14 12:45 PM (#615041 - in reply to #614931)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)


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I spoke to an engineer at WAI today and he informed me that the 12336N alternator has a vacuum pump NOT a hydro pump mounted on the back.
BUT, that alternator has a splined shaft out the back and it could be possible to fabricate an adapter to the stock Dodge P/S pump. Sorry for the previous mis-information.
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-14 4:55 PM (#615044 - in reply to #615041)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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JedRhule - 2021-09-14 9:45 AM
I spoke to an engineer at WAI today and he informed me that the 12336N alternator has a vacuum pump NOT a hydro pump mounted on the back.
BUT, that alternator has a splined shaft out the back and it could be possible to fabricate an adapter to the stock Dodge P/S pump.


Gerry: Do you have a contact name/number for the engineer you spoke with? I would like to get more information about the spline drive.

I found these photos at RockAuto and eBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194272430900





Edited by 56D500boy 2021-09-14 5:07 PM




(WAI_Global_12336N_Frontside.jpg)



(WAI_Global_12336N_Backside.jpg)



(SideView.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments WAI_Global_12336N_Frontside.jpg (60KB - 2 downloads)
Attachments WAI_Global_12336N_Backside.jpg (60KB - 2 downloads)
Attachments SideView.jpg (79KB - 2 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-14 6:06 PM (#615045 - in reply to #615044)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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56D500boy - 2021-09-14 1:55 PM
Gerry: Do you have a contact name/number for the engineer you spoke with? I would like to get more information about the spline drive.


Hmm.... Found a Youtube video regarding the repair of an Isuzu alternator-driven vacuum pump (which seems to be the application of the WAI 12336N alternator (as a replacement for a Hitachi alternator)). I can see the splines and more importantly, a hole in the end of the splined shaft. Since the the OE factory 56 Dodge PS pump is driven off the end of the generator via two pin drive-dog that is simply bolted to the end of the armature shaft, converting an Isuzu alternator do drive a 56 Dodge PS pump might not be as difficult as first thought.

OE Dodge generator commutator and PS drive dog:



PS drive (not mine) followed by the Isuzu splined shaft:



(VeryDirtyVickersPSPumpOneBayShowingDriveDogAndRubberBuffer.jpg)



(IzuzuAlternatorDrivenVacuumPumpRepairShowingSplinedDrive_WithHoleInEnd.jpg)



(IzuzuAlternatorDrivenVacuumPumpRepairShowingSplinedDrive.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments VeryDirtyVickersPSPumpOneBayShowingDriveDogAndRubberBuffer.jpg (158KB - 4 downloads)
Attachments IzuzuAlternatorDrivenVacuumPumpRepairShowingSplinedDrive_WithHoleInEnd.jpg (54KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments IzuzuAlternatorDrivenVacuumPumpRepairShowingSplinedDrive.jpg (99KB - 4 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-14 7:34 PM (#615047 - in reply to #615045)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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I think I found the alternator that was used to drive the PS pump in that example 56 Chrysler Windsor above: Also an Isuzu alternator (probably Hitachi) but larger in size that the other ones that we have found. Still with a shaft that is used to drive the vacuum pump.

This:





(LargeIsuzuAlternator_WithVaccumPump.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments LargeIsuzuAlternator_WithVaccumPump.jpg (79KB - 4 downloads)
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JedRhule
Posted 2021-09-16 5:37 PM (#615104 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)


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Posts: 10

Another option:
Alternator Fits Chevrolet, Isuzu Medium & Heavy Duty Trucks GM97116697, Gm97189650



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 97116697, 97189650.docx (220KB - 12 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-16 6:02 PM (#615105 - in reply to #615104)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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JedRhule - 2021-09-16 2:37 PM Another option:
Alternator Fits Chevrolet, Isuzu Medium & Heavy Duty Trucks GM97116697, Gm97189650


Gerry: It was tough to open your attachment (better link a .jpg than a WORD doc for photos). Regardless, that is likely a Hitachi LR 180-510 which I identified in my older similar thread that I updated yesterday with the Hitachi alternator/vacuum pump stuff:

REFERENCE: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=74111&...

Photo of a Hitachi LR 180-510 from my thread:



Photo from your "GM" attachment (remember GM has money in Isuzu):





(ProbableHitachiAlternator.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments ProbableHitachiAlternator.jpg (22KB - 1 downloads)
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wayfarer
Posted 2021-09-18 7:35 PM (#615156 - in reply to #610764)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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Adding an alt and ps pump is not all that much work. In years past I made and sold alot of the brackets.
I had hoped to attach a photo but need to find a smaller one to attach.

Edited by wayfarer 2021-09-18 7:41 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2021-09-18 9:04 PM (#615167 - in reply to #615156)
Subject: Re: Pictures of the front of a 56 354 hemi? (with accessories)



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Yes please Gary (post a photo of what you made) (Thanks)

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