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Removing Hard Water Deposits
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-18 12:27 AM (#610061)
Subject: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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This '57 New Yorker I purchased has a lot of hard water deposits on the glass. I don't know how to clean it. When I had deposits on my '56 Furys, I used steel wool and that worked quite well to remove it, and the deposits on it were rough to the touch. But this one is different. When I feel the glass, it feels smooth and clean; and if I scrub with steel wool for 10 minutes in one very small spot, it only cleans it slightly. Still not enough to see through clearly. Any ideas for how to clean it off?



(57NY Gold Window Deposits.jpg)



(57NY Gold Rear Window Deposits.jpg)



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Attachments 57NY Gold Window Deposits.jpg (111KB - 291 downloads)
Attachments 57NY Gold Rear Window Deposits.jpg (83KB - 275 downloads)
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Apollo 61
Posted 2021-03-18 1:04 AM (#610062 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Maybe try CLR with steel wool?
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-18 1:06 AM (#610063 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Try with citric acid and water 1:10
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-18 1:22 AM (#610065 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I tried high strength vinegar and it did nothing. I just watched a video on citric acid, and that seemed pretty good so I'll give it a try. I'm not familiar with CLR. What is in it?

Edited by Powerflite 2021-03-18 1:23 AM
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60 dart
Posted 2021-03-18 4:43 AM (#610067 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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clr is some good stuff -------------------------------later
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Daniel 1959
Posted 2021-03-18 6:52 AM (#610069 - in reply to #610065)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Powerflite - 2021-03-18 1:22 AM

I tried high strength vinegar and it did nothing. I just watched a video on citric acid, and that seemed pretty good so I'll give it a try. I'm not familiar with CLR. What is in it?


Watch this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQdV2Kb2fCI

I personaly take DURGOL for coffee mashines. I delute it with water 1:3 and then let it soak with a cloth like linen to cover the area to clean , rinse it from time to time with the solution, to keep it wet. To avoid any damage on the paint i would Tape off the window with tube gorilla or scotch tapeand cover the area beneeth the window with a plastic. So the solution can rinse off without harming the paint.

Let the solution sit for about 30 min. Then take off the linen and take a soft scotch kitchen cloth for cleaning teflon pans , not the hart ones. Rub softly on the window to get the soften hard water resedues off the window. This method should work and may be repeted as necessary. I had good results with it without harming or scratching any delicate parts , even plastic can be cleaned this way.

Dani
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jboymechanic
Posted 2021-03-18 12:53 PM (#610090 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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CLR will work. I bought a used windshield that had been outside for decades and was loaded with hard water deposits. You need an acid cleaner, which CLR is, to dissolve the calcium and other minerals left behind by the water.
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57chizler
Posted 2021-03-18 3:08 PM (#610093 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: RE: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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If worse comes to worst, try this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Windshield-Scratch-Removal-Glass-Polishing-...
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-18 6:54 PM (#610104 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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The citric acid didn't do much to it. Durgol is based on sulfamic acid, which is similar in nature to sulfuric acid. Sulfuric acid will etch the glass, but apparently sulfamic won't. It's a more mild form of acid. I tried some CLR that my wife had laying around, and it didn't seem to make any difference.

Doing some more reading on the subject, they say that hydrochloric, phosphoric & nitric acids won't etch glass unless they are heated, but are more volatile to remove harder stains. Muriatic acid is essentially a diluted form of hydrochloric, so I tried a 20% solution to see what it would do. Hardly anything. It did seem to clean off the residue that the other stuff had left on there though, so it made the glass more opaque - great, at least it was an honest substance. Phosphoric will change rust to stable black rust, so that's potentially a good choice to use on a car, so I tried putting Rust Mort on there, which is a dilute form of phosphoric acid. Of all the things I tried, that seemed to soften it up a little bit so that with some scraping with a razor blade, I could almost get some of it off. But not enough to be happy about. I can try purchasing a more concentrated form of it or try letting it soak on there, but I'm beginning to think that I may have to resort to a polish instead as Chizler posted, but that's a lot of work to go over this much surface area. Nitric acid is more expensive and more of a controlled substance so I won't try it. It seems that what I have on the glass isn't calcium or metallic based so it doesn't come off very easy. It is probably more silica based, the same material as the windshield, so that makes it more difficult to remove.
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-03-18 8:35 PM (#610107 - in reply to #610104)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits


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Two ideas:

1) Try paint stripper, like Klean-strip. It's available in an aerosol can from Home Depot.

2) Try buffing it with cerium oxide, the stuff they use for polishing glass.

One of these two suggestions should do the trick.

Ron

 

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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-18 10:40 PM (#610113 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I tried the paint stripper and it didn't do anything within an hour of application, even in the dark so it doesn't dry out. I'm sure the polishing will work, but I'm trying to avoid that option.

But...I had applied 6 or 7 layers of muriatic acid on the front & rear windows, letting it dry between coats, and came back out after 4 hours. Miraculously, the passenger side of both windows is mostly clean now, but the driver's side is still bad. I don't know if it affected it differently because of a difference in composition or if the driver's side was a thicker coating. In either case, this is very encouraging. The muriatic acid is the strongest one I have at the moment, so I'll continue with it to see if I can get it clean. I'm going to apply numerous coatings at 1/2 hour intervals during the night and let it set before I go to bed.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-19 12:06 PM (#610133 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I was wrong. The acid hadn't fully dried out so it looked better than it was. Now that the sun is out and dried the windows completely, the passenger side doesn't look any different than the driver's side, and no different than before I did anything.
I'm going to give up at this point and resort to polishing.
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-19 12:57 PM (#610134 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Try the citric acid first
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-19 1:25 PM (#610137 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I already did. See 3 posts above. This is a very unusual coating. There were some standard hard water deposits on it too, with some rust stains, and the muriatic acid took those right off with only a little bit of scrubbing required. But the majority of it is something else. It might even be a light etching in the surface so that none of this will have any effect on it. The surface doesn't feel dirty, it feels smooth and clean. The only one that seemed to make a little difference was the phosphoric acid. I've purchased an 85% food grade concentration of it to give it a last ditch try, but I don't have much hope in it. I'll probably end up using it for rust conversion instead.
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wizard
Posted 2021-03-19 1:32 PM (#610138 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I might misunderstand, I read muriatic acid?

Citric acid normally works well to remove calcium
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Daniel 1959
Posted 2021-03-19 10:06 PM (#610164 - in reply to #610137)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Powerflite - 2021-03-19 1:25 PM

I already did. See 3 posts above. This is a very unusual coating. There were some standard hard water deposits on it too, with some rust stains, and the muriatic acid took those right off with only a little bit of scrubbing required. But the majority of it is something else. It might even be a light etching in the surface so that none of this will have any effect on it. The surface doesn't feel dirty, it feels smooth and clean. The only one that seemed to make a little difference was the phosphoric acid. I've purchased an 85% food grade concentration of it to give it a last ditch try, but I don't have much hope in it. I'll probably end up using it for rust conversion instead.


Are you sure the discoloration is on the outside of the window, as you stated the surface feels smooth and clean ? Could it be a delamination of the safety glass ? Normaly safety glass has a plastic layer in between the two layers of glass. If this plastic gets delaminated from the glass, there is no cure for it. The glass must be replaced. Happens to every older safety glass in cars or aviation windshields due to prolonged sun radiation and ageing process.

Just beeing curious, as you tried so many things already.


Dani
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-03-20 12:52 AM (#610165 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Yeah, I thought of that too, but I don't think so. Mainly because I can make the window mostly clear by applying a fluid film on the surface. That wouldn't be possible if it were a delamination issue. Also, this would be a huge amount of striated delamination, that would set a record.
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-04-03 1:44 PM (#610650 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I tried using the high strength phosphoric acid on the windows and wasn't too surprised to find out that it didn't work. I also received the cerium oxide glass polish and gave that a shot on the end of my cordless drill. I am very happy to report that it took the relatively thin residue on the side windows right off. The side windows are now almost completely clean. But on the front & rear windows, that residue is really thick, so that to get it off, I need to either improve my process a lot or get a better tool. Using my drill on one spot for 5-10 min, cleared off the thin areas, but left the thicker sections still in place. The drill is less than worthy for this purpose, so I am looking into a more suitable tool. I did this polishing dry, but should I try doing it wet instead?
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ronbo97
Posted 2021-04-03 10:42 PM (#610676 - in reply to #610650)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits


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Nathan -

Here's a How-To on how to polish a windshield. You need a tool, such as a buffer, that runs at about 1500-2000 rpm.

https://www.wikihow.com/Remove-Scratches-from-a-Windshield

Ron

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LD3 Greg
Posted 2021-04-03 11:01 PM (#610677 - in reply to #610676)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits


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Yes. You need the polishing/buffing tool not the sanding one which runs too fast and would generate way too much heat. I used a big Milwaukee polisher. The same I use for compound polishing painted surfaces.
It uses a 4" diameter or so felt pad with the serium oxide but with the curves of the windshield all you do is hit the high spots. Whatever you do don't buy the equipment! Borrow or rent it because regardless of how much time you spend on this project you will not be happy with the results!!

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2021-04-04 12:29 AM (#610678 - in reply to #610677)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Why do you say I won't be happy with the results Greg? I was very happy with the results on my side windows. I no longer have to replace them now.

Thanks for the instructions Ron. It looks like they are polishing with the powder turned into a wet paste. I'll give that a try. And I'll try using something that can spin a little quicker since this cordless drill is pretty slow.

Edited by Powerflite 2021-04-04 12:32 AM
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22mafeja
Posted 2021-04-04 3:11 AM (#610682 - in reply to #610678)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits


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For me it has always worked with 3M vf sanding sheets and rubbing compound. Have never seen anything like your glasses though.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2021-04-04 10:41 PM (#610693 - in reply to #610678)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits


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Use it wet for sure. I spent hours trying and it will work to a point but the result will be streaky because of the curves and it will be difficult to look through especially at night.

Give it a go! Don't expect too much and you might be pleasantly surprised! If nothing else it will certainly clean it.

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-02-21 10:48 PM (#627760 - in reply to #610650)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Ryan (61_Imperial) buffed his '60 DeSoto windshield with M85-01 Meguiars "Diamond Cut" Compound 2.0 to remove stubborn algae-like deposits, with what looked to be great results. I kindof like the idea of using this product more than the cerium-oxide because it's already in paste form and specifically made for buffing. It probably doesn't cut as deep as the cerium oxide, as well. But I am wondering if I should try M105-01 Meguiars "Ultra Cut" Compound instead to get a more aggressive cut on it? I guess I should try the diamond cut first and see how it goes. As Greg pointed out, cutting too much probably isn't a good thing.

I have to purchase a battery powered polisher to get the job done as the car is sitting too far away from any electricity at the moment.

Edited by Powerflite 2023-02-21 11:03 PM




(RyanR Diamond Cut 2.0 Buffed Windsheild.jpg)



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Attachments RyanR Diamond Cut 2.0 Buffed Windsheild.jpg (214KB - 59 downloads)
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22mafeja
Posted 2023-02-22 3:42 AM (#627762 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: RE: Removing Hard Water Deposits


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I always use Ultra Cut and the big electric polisher (9" i think) with sheep wool pad on the lowest speed or mid speed. But to begin with I coarse clean the glass with ultrafine finishing pad and ultra cut.
Works very well for me. Of course it doesn`t fix the deep scratches.
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-02-22 1:18 PM (#627765 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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Thanks Ralf! Nice to know the Ultra-cut won't cause problems on the glass. So I'll try the ultra-cut instead, as I'm sure it's going to take quite a bit of polishing to fix this problem. And thanks for the reminder that it needs to be clean first. I would hate to have some piece of grit get into it and scratch it up.
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Powerflite
Posted 2023-02-23 7:54 PM (#627793 - in reply to #610061)
Subject: Re: Removing Hard Water Deposits



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I received the UltraCut from Amazon and bought a battery powered grinder to try polishing this windshield. I used a coarse foam pad on it, as I figured it was going to need quite a bit of cutting action to take care of it. Unfortunately, the battery power isn't up to the task. Due to the amount of torque on it, it would overheat the battery and shut off after only 5 seconds of running. I also purchased this to cut sheet metal in locations I don't have electricity available. I'll give that a try, and if it doesn't work for that, I'm taking it back.

Nevertheless, with the limited amount of buffing that I could do, I would say that it definitely made a difference. The two stripes that I circled is where I applied it. Those stripes are much more visible at the bottom where I didn't buff, than above. So I would call that a possible success. I just need to purchase a really long extension cord to get electricity over there, or wait until I can get that car on my driveway to work on it exclusively.



(Battery Polisher-Grinder and UltraCut.jpg)



(Gold 57NY Windsheild Polish Attempt.jpg)



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Attachments Battery Polisher-Grinder and UltraCut.jpg (179KB - 62 downloads)
Attachments Gold 57NY Windsheild Polish Attempt.jpg (174KB - 61 downloads)
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