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1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon
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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-12-27 11:10 PM (#592117)
Subject: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Bought this on the 23rd, came home today. Really excited about this car, but one of the other Plymouths will have to go. Currently in storage at my dad's shop, more to come!



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ttotired
Posted 2019-12-28 4:02 PM (#592140 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Cool

I would love one myself

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oldwood
Posted 2019-12-29 12:07 PM (#592179 - in reply to #592140)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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Posts: 2874
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Location: little rock, AR
Jon has gone off the DEEP end. Now your gonna have to fill it with more Chill-rens
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SavoyPlaza
Posted 2019-12-29 1:53 PM (#592191 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 1167
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Location: Georgia
Cool! Merry Christmas to you! What engine does she have? Is that little scoop an indication of something big? What are your plans
for her?

I've always loved the 61 Plymouths the most, but I've really grown fond of my '60 Plymouth wagon, something about those fins!
Pete
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oldwood
Posted 2019-12-29 7:32 PM (#592217 - in reply to #592191)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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Posts: 2874
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Location: little rock, AR
I here its going to get a LS swap.

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jboymechanic
Posted 2019-12-31 12:45 AM (#592272 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
No engine in the car, someone made a very poor attempt to install a smog era short deck Oldsmobile 350 in it. Motor came out as part of the price negotiation. Hood scoop is from a late 1950s to early 1960s Ford Super Duty truck (F-700 or larger) as identified correctly by my dad.

Looking to install a 1973 440 in this car, gathering parts. Looking for a driver side exhaust manifold from a 413. I have the passenger side manifold and 413 engine mounts.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-01 9:20 PM (#592364 - in reply to #592272)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Here are some more parts showing the car's general condition, which I think is pretty good. Can anyone help with the data tag?



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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-01 9:26 PM (#592366 - in reply to #592364)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Based on the oil change labels in the driver door jamb and the mileage on the odometer, the car was parked around 1976.



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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-01 9:30 PM (#592367 - in reply to #592366)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
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Location: Muskego, WI
Here is what happened under the hood. Pretty much everything is still there other than some additional brackets being welded to the original motor mount pads and the center link being cut up.



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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-01 9:34 PM (#592368 - in reply to #592367)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Here are a couple more shots of the interior. Going to let it air out and do some serious cleaning.



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SavoyPlaza
Posted 2020-01-02 5:40 PM (#592396 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 1167
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Location: Georgia
Nice! She does appear to be in good shape. That headliner looks perfect! The bumpers look nice and straight, even has both rubber
steps on the rear bumper, and the chrome/plastic speedometer frame looks intact. Very nice.

I'm a little surprised to not see the 'grab' handles on the sides of the rear window, I would have thought those to be standard with the
9-passenger. Regardless, she's a great start.
Pete
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56D500boy
Posted 2020-01-02 6:47 PM (#592397 - in reply to #592396)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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SavoyPlaza - 2020-01-02 2:40 PMI'm a little surprised to not see the 'grab' handles on the sides of the rear window, I would have thought those to be standard with the
9-passenger. Regardless, she's a great start.


At least the foot pads are there on the bumper:



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Ev's62Chrysler
Posted 2020-01-02 10:57 PM (#592400 - in reply to #592396)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 173
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SavoyPlaza - 2020-01-02 5:40 PM

Nice! She does appear to be in good shape. That headliner looks perfect! The bumpers look nice and straight, even has both rubber
steps on the rear bumper, and the chrome/plastic speedometer frame looks intact. Very nice.

I'm a little surprised to not see the 'grab' handles on the sides of the rear window, I would have thought those to be standard with the
9-passenger. Regardless, she's a great start.
Pete


"Assist Handles" were optional on my 62 9 passenger. Likely the same for the 61 Plymouth.
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oldwood
Posted 2020-01-02 11:09 PM (#592401 - in reply to #592400)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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Posts: 2874
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Location: little rock, AR
I have some arm rests
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2020-01-02 11:32 PM (#592404 - in reply to #592364)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Location: Ohio
jboymechanic - 2020-01-01 9:20 Pms Can anyone help with the data tag?


Jon,

Here’s some info on the fender tag codes

367
3= Plymouth with V-8
6= Belvedere station wagon
7= St Louis MO assembly plant

It looks as though the trim and paint codes might be reversed (stamped in wrong location). The reason for this statement is that Paint codes are usually “letters” and Trim “numbers”

This would actually make sense as the codes translate as follows if switched:

TRM 341 = blue interior
PNT code WDW =
W = oyster white roof
D = twilight blue metallic - body
W = oyster white - not certain but believe this is referring to white coves on front fenders

Edited by Space Trukin Wagon 2020-01-02 11:37 PM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-02 11:43 PM (#592405 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Thank you for the data plate info, any way to tell if this was a Poly or a big block?
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2020-01-02 11:46 PM (#592407 - in reply to #592404)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 289
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Location: Ohio
The wagon seems really solid and has some nice options on a 9 passenger

One other note the radio knobs look to be from a 1961 Dodge / 1960-61 Desoto model
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1960fury
Posted 2020-01-03 7:24 AM (#592416 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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9 passenger Custom Suburban, ultra rare back in the day and probably only a few left. Congratulations! I'm glad it got in good hands.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-03 9:35 AM (#592419 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
My dad says he "thinks" he remembers seeing this car at the drag strip in the 1960s. Car appears like it might have been at the strip at one point given the gauges and the overall look. The front tires are taller than the rear, perhaps a poor mans gasser setup?

How many leaf springs would this car have from the factory? This car has 9 leaves on the passenger side and 8 on the driver. I don't know the rear axle gear ratio yet or if it's a Sure Grip, but I hope to find out this weekend. The rear axle is also crooked in the car, on one side the alignment pin through the spring stack into the spring perch on the axle sheared off and the u-bolts are on an angle. Again, perhaps more evidence that someone was dragging this car?
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-01-03 12:02 PM (#592423 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 895
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Location: Ramona, CA

Contact Chrysler for a copy of the build card for your car and maybe the selling dealer.

Danielle.szostak@fcagroup.com

Request build card with serial number (VIN) and provide proof of ownership.

Who knows how much longer this service will be available.

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oldwood
Posted 2020-01-05 12:12 PM (#592494 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon


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Posts: 2874
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Location: little rock, AR
I guess I need to get my '61 Wagon ready. Mine is going to feature the optional 413 and Aluminum TF from a '62 Imperial. Here are a couple things you need to find for your wagon. lol


Edited by oldwood 2020-01-05 12:19 PM




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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-06 1:14 AM (#592512 - in reply to #592494)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Put the car up on dollies today so my dad can move it around if he needs to. Checked the rear gears, with one wheel off the ground I rolled one wheel 2 full revolutions to get about 3.5 revolutions of the differential pinion, so 3.54 open gears.

Below are pictures of the floors, they are much better than they look in the pictures. They look bad, but are all very solid other than the braces welded to the underside of the floor. I will eventually clean, replace the braces, can then paint the underside with rust bullet or POR-15. The third row seat foot well will need work as well.



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Powerflite
Posted 2020-01-06 6:56 PM (#592556 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Location: So. California
Great find! 1960 is my favorite year for forwardlook wagons. I really don't recommend running a 440 though, it will eat up so much fuel that you will rarely ever want to drive it. I am amazed at how much more fuel my 1960 413 eats compared to my '58 361 motor. A 361 would be a more practical choice. My 318 Satellite wagon has plenty of power with dual exhaust and 4bbl so a well built 361 should be more than enough. It's not like you are going to drag race it, right? But either way, it'll be great to have another '60 wagon on the road again.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-06 10:27 PM (#592567 - in reply to #592556)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
A 440 wasn't my first choice, but it is freshly built and free to me. As of now, my dad and I are planning on stick shift so I will definitely have overdrive. If I don't like it, long term I would probably find another 318 Poly as I do like those motors.

Another find in the wagon, my dad has been cleaning it out and he found these floor mats all folded up. Are these original?



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Powerflite
Posted 2020-01-06 10:52 PM (#592568 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 6880
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Those look like '60 Dodge symbols. They may be original to a '60 Dodge.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-09 3:42 PM (#592689 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
So for the sake of time and money and getting this car back on the road as soon as possible, I will most likely use the TorqueFlite that was originally behind the 440. The Imperial Services cable doesn't allow you to use park in the trans and I wouldn't have a parking brake on the trans or rear axle, so I will be abandoning the original push buttons. Is there an add-on shifter, other than the on top of the transmission floor shifter, that I can use to get the full range out of the trans? I'd really like to avoid cutting a hole in my floor if possible.

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Powerflite
Posted 2020-01-09 4:02 PM (#592692 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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You can do what I did and just attach a push-pull cable to the shifter arm and run it up alongside your steering column, and mount it to the dash. Then push it in to get the different positions and pull it all the way out to go into park. You can feel the different positions as the cable moves so you don't really need an indicator for it.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-09 10:54 PM (#592712 - in reply to #592692)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I'd rather have a shifter, just in case someone else who isn't as mechanically savvy should drive it. But this got me thinking about the conversion shift cable to use your original buttons with a 1966 and newer TF trans (like in the link below).

http://www.aandatrans.com/Products/Push-Button-Conversion-Cable-Set...

The original push button TF trans has 5 detent positions: R N D 2 1
The 1966 and newer TF trans have 6 detent positions: P R N D 2 1

With the adapter cable kit, you lose one position; Park

Would it be possible to hook up the adapter cable and lose 1 instead of P? So your buttons would be as follow:
R becomes P
N becomes R
N becomes D
D becomes 2
and then 1 isn't usable?

The buttons would have to be re-labeled, would this otherwise work? Or is there a detail I'm missing?
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-09 10:59 PM (#592713 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
One more question about wagons. Would there be anything unique about the rear axle assembly in this wagon compared to my 1960 Plymouth Sedan? Same axle width? Same spring perch width? Are the brakes wider or larger diameter? I have an entire rear axle assembly from my 1960 Plymouth sedan with 3.31 gears and it is much cleaner than the axle in the car.
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Powerflite
Posted 2020-01-09 11:13 PM (#592714 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 6880
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Location: So. California
No, because I believe Park is farther away than just one push-button movement. It is like 1.5 or 2, so that if you did it, you would lose 2 positions, and the other positions might not be fully engaged, because it may not fall directly on top of the correct position.

Your axle should be the same width with the same spring perch location. The brakes are probably larger on the wagon though, and the springs should be stiffer. Typically, 9 passenger wagons received the good rear springs. 6 passenger wagons had rear springs that were too soft and should be replaced.

Edited by Powerflite 2020-01-09 11:14 PM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-09 11:21 PM (#592716 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I see what you mean on the Park detent on the valve control arm.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Torqueflite-727-904-1964-PUSHBUTTON-Control...

Thanks for confirmation on the rear axle.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-24 12:54 PM (#593377 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
My dad has been working away on this car in his garage. He's polishing all the chrome and he mounted up my front bumper bar, I need to get over there and get some update pictures. Cleaning up under the hood and around the sub-frame as well. We're going to pull the seats and carpet to assess, patch (if needed) and coat the floors. Then we'll do brakes and figure out exactly why the rear axle is crooked. Roger at AAJ is working on my front disc kit.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-31 10:53 PM (#593686 - in reply to #593377)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Doing some more prep work for the brakes on this car. I have pressed in new studs into the original rear hubs, which have had the drums separated from them. I used Dorman studs 610-368. They look long, but by the time you stack the drum, wheel and then the lug nut there, hardly any stud will protrude.

I did discover that if you separate the front drums from the hub, they will indeed fit the rear hub as well. I assumed it would, but now I have proven it. Only issue is that the drum and hub were balanced as an assembly, so that may be an issue. Otherwise I'm still looking for the following brake drums if anyone knows where to get them:

Raybestos 2925
Wagner BD60115



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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-01-31 10:57 PM (#593687 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I also dug up some near new rear shoes I had stashed away and I sand blasted & painted my rear drum backing plates.
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Space Trukin Wagon
Posted 2020-02-01 9:57 AM (#593703 - in reply to #592713)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Veteran

Posts: 289
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Location: Ohio
jboymechanic - 2020-01-09 10:59 PM

One more question about wagons. Would there be anything unique about the rear axle assembly in this wagon compared to my 1960 Plymouth Sedan? Same axle width? Same spring perch width? Are the brakes wider or larger diameter? I have an entire rear axle assembly from my 1960 Plymouth sedan with 3.31 gears and it is much cleaner than the axle in the car.


Jon,
The rear axle housing is the same for all models except the imperial.
The only difference is whether it’s an 8-1/4 or 8-3/4.
Either one will interchange as they have the same dimensions. As you know the 6 cylinder cars came standard with the smaller 8-1/4 axle and V-8s the 8-3/4 version.
[Note confirmed this info in the 1960 master parts catalog]

One other detail on the rear springs, the wagons use a different front hanger bracket and rear shackle mounting strap.

Edited by Space Trukin Wagon 2020-02-01 12:11 PM
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-02-02 10:58 PM (#593749 - in reply to #593687)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Picture of the bumper bar mounted on the car. Also crawled under the car to get a look at the rear diff, '657 8 3/4 with small u-joint and was surprised by that in a wagon.



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1960fury
Posted 2020-02-03 7:51 AM (#593762 - in reply to #593749)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert 5K+

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Location: northern germany
jboymechanic - 2020-02-02 10:58 PM

Picture of the bumper bar mounted on the car. Also crawled under the car to get a look at the rear diff, '657 8 3/4 with small u-joint and was surprised by that in a wagon.


I would say/think that every 60/61 Plymouth got the small U-joint, including 383 ram/GC cars with 2.93 axles. At least my 60/61s GC's and 60/61 Desotos.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-02-09 9:38 PM (#593992 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
I purchased a really clean and complete 318 this weekend, came out of a super clean 1962 Plymouth wagon. Engine will get a quick hone, new rings and bearings, freeze plugs and gaskets. I have a A518 automatic overdrive I've been waiting to put into something, so that will be the combo. 318, automatic overdrive with 3.31 gears (regardless of what gears are in the car now).
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-02-10 11:31 AM (#594021 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
Oh, and the 1961 Plymouth Savoy will now most likely get the 440 transplant.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-02-16 12:40 AM (#594348 - in reply to #594021)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
10005001001001001002525
Location: Muskego, WI
My dad and I got the front disc brakes on the car today, along with the new master cylinder. Mounted the magnum 500 wheels up front too since I didn't have enough lug nuts to re-mount the old Cragars that were on the car (all studs are now right-hand threads). We also did a rough clean up of the front suspension and steering linkage along with greasing all the joints. Quite a mess, but everything cleaned up pretty well and feels good.

Edited by jboymechanic 2020-02-16 12:44 AM




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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-03-07 11:53 PM (#595387 - in reply to #594348)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
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Location: Muskego, WI
My dad has been working on the engine. He has port matched the heads and exhaust manifolds, polished all the ports and runners, 3 angle valve job and lapped the valves into place. With a 4 barrel carb, the old 318 should breathe pretty decently. Not trying to make a ton of power, my dad mostly just likes doing this stuff.

Edited by jboymechanic 2020-03-07 11:56 PM




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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-03-14 11:59 PM (#595608 - in reply to #595387)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
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Location: Muskego, WI
Got my pistons cleaned up, they appear to be in very good shape. Also converting a 1974 small block distributor to HEI using one of Powerflite's kits (Nathan Nuttall, designed2drive).



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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-03-27 1:07 AM (#596102 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
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Location: Muskego, WI
Before we were given the "safer at home" order, I dropped off the pistons, block, crank and all other short block components for the 318 at my dad's shop. This will get him through the social distancing, and hopefully we can put the motor in the car when then thing clears up.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-04-02 2:09 PM (#596371 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
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Location: Muskego, WI
Heads are completely rebuilt and ready to go, dad will be working on the short block next.

I like the 5 speed in my other Plymouth so much I ended up buying another AX15 from a 1998 Dodge Dakota for this car. I will rebuild this one as well while we're all stuck at home waiting out the virus.
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NicksGarage
Posted 2020-04-02 3:36 PM (#596372 - in reply to #592396)
Subject: RE: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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SavoyPlaza - 2020-01-02 2:40 PM

I'm a little surprised to not see the 'grab' handles on the sides of the rear window, I would have thought those to be standard with the
9-passenger. Regardless, she's a great start.
Pete


Grab bar application seems to be inconsistent on the Plymouth and maybe Dodge wagons. They were standard on all 1960 Chrysler wagons regardless of 3rd seat or roof rack.

You can tell it's a real 3-seat wagon since it has the rear dome light and the power rear window switch next to the light. If you see a 3-seat wagon with a manual tailgate wagon, something is amiss. Either the third seat has been added later or the tailgate is wrong. Of course you can never say never with Chrysler.

Another thing I've noticed is that some Plymouth wagons don't have the stainless strips on top of the roof and down the back. I thought they came on all the wagons but seen several without.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-04-03 10:25 AM (#596387 - in reply to #595387)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Location: N.W. Fla.
jboymechanic - 2020-03-07 10:53 PM

polished all the ports and runners, .
These days polishing the e ports is fine, but current thinking is leaving the int ports rough or even cutting shallow lines in them to induce tumbling/swirl.
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-04-03 10:26 AM (#596388 - in reply to #595608)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 2818
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Location: N.W. Fla.
jboymechanic - 2020-03-14 10:59 PM

. Also converting a 1974 small block distributor to HEI using one of Powerflite's kits (Nathan Nuttall, designed2drive).
Vs just getting a '76 or later dizzy?
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Mopar1
Posted 2020-04-03 10:29 AM (#596389 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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Posts: 2818
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Location: N.W. Fla.
Looks like the OEM rear axle is still there. Most update to get away from the press on drums. I have a late '70s 9" from a Ranchero in my '60 Sedan.
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jboymechanic
Posted 2020-04-03 4:41 PM (#596408 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



Expert

Posts: 1967
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Location: Muskego, WI
I've already separated the drums from the hubs, then I can just slip the drums on and off. I have faith in the old tapered axles otherwise.

I already had the '74 distributor and I've heard that the Mopar electronic ignition isn't all that great. It's also more expensive that the HEI conversion.
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58coupe
Posted 2020-04-04 12:03 PM (#596431 - in reply to #592117)
Subject: Re: 1960 Plymouth 9 passenger wagon



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I don't remember ever having a failure of the electronic ignition on any of the Chrysler products i have owned. I even installed the performance unit from Direct Connection (Chrysler Performance) on my 69 Charger. Of course, most of these were stock engines if that matters.
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