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Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-19 7:34 PM (#550632)
Subject: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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I have made some posts on this in somebodyelse's thread and for that, I apologize. I figure that I better start my own thread.

I have seen what Powerflite (Nathan) showed what he did with his cars. Somehow my 4 door 56 Dodge C-pillar is different than his 2 dr Plymouth C-pillar.

Seeing that I need to create a cover plate (or something) to the missing rotted headliner cloth that used to cover the C-pillar, I thought that I could kill two birds with one stone/plate (painted the light blue of the headliner) and figure out how I would mount a shoulder belt upper ring on the C-pillar. Steve at Seatbelt Solutions suggested that I could install a retractor on the parcel shelf but I am very reluctant to mess with my "art" (the parcel shelf shown below). So I am headed towards a non-retracting 3-point with the fixed upper point on the C-pillar.



I *think* that I would like to create a metal plate that would slip inside the C-pillar and provide an anchoring point for the 7/16" x 20 UNF threaded upper seat belt mounting bolt.

My idea is shown below with the cover plate outlined in white and the mounting plate that would be *INSIDE* the C-pillar in yellow. Just an idea. NOTE: I do NOT weld.





Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-19 7:37 PM




(56DodgeRightRearCPillarExposedToAssessSeatBeltAttachment_Annotated.jpg)



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wizard
Posted 2017-10-20 2:09 AM (#550652 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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That would work for the rear seat belts as it's a strong anchor point
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-20 10:08 AM (#550665 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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The yellow outline for your support plate looks good. I don't see the purpose of the white cover. You don't need something on the outside, unless it is just to cover your damaged headliner. Unfortunately, cutting and welding are going to be required for this job. You will likely need to open up the upper opening big enough to get the yellow plate inside, and in place. You will also need to weld the 7/16-20 nut to the backside of the plate. You can thread the plate too, but it won't be enough threat without the nut there. You will also have to plug weld the plate in place and patch up the cut you create above. So find a friend or shop that can do the welding for you once you get all the prep work done.

Also, don't assume the position of the bolt. Have someone sit in the seat and position the belt until it looks and feels the most comfortable.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-10-20 10:10 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-20 12:01 PM (#550670 - in reply to #550665)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Thanks Nathan.

The white outline is the "cover" I need to create anyway to avoid redoing the headliner (at this time). I am going to mock-up the yellow line plate in 1/8" thick aluminum plate (which I have on hand) just to see if I can avoid cutting any of the existing metal. If that doesn't work, I will have to cut and get somebody (maybe my neighbour) to weld.

I hear you on the location of the threaded nut/bolt but I have already sat in the rear seat and the location I have shown is going to be close to where it will end up. Also hear you on the nut that needs to be welded to the plate.



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-21 5:51 PM (#550761 - in reply to #550665)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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On my way home from picking up some NOS parts purchased from Len Dawson and delivered to my mail drop in Point Roberts, WA, I stopped in at LOWES and bought some seat belt mounting supplies:

1. Two 7/16" by 20 nuts, one each to be welded to the mounting plates.

2. 3 ft of 1 1/4" wide x 3/16" thick steel bar/plate to make the mount (or at least trial a mock-up).

I went out to garage after lunch to measure those oval slots for width (1 ") and then started feeling inside the cavity to figure out if there will be any impediments to locating a plate back in there. While I was contemplating the cutting of the upper oval slot to facilitate me sliding down the mounting plate, I felt at the bottom of the bottom oval slot. WAIT A MINUTE, there was nothing inside below that lowest oval. So I pulled the seat back away from the rear bulk head and saw that I have a big opening through which I can slide a mounting plate UP into the cavity. There is also possibility that I can go to 1 1/2" wide and 1/4" thick. I'll play with the material that I have to figure out the limitiations of this idea.

When I took the base photo that I annotated below, the flash exposed the surface rust on the back side of the outer C-pillar. I had previously treated the inner sides of the rear fenders in that area with Rust Converter and Zero Rust anti-rust paint so I went inside and got my can of Rust Converter and sprayed the heck out of that inner C-pillar.

Upwards and on-wards.


Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-21 5:54 PM




(56DodgeRightRearCPillarExposedFurtherToAssessSeatBeltAttachment_Annotated.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-22 3:44 PM (#550807 - in reply to #550761)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Started out this AM with a "Mark 1" plate mock-up. 1.25" wide and about 10" long. Fit okay but realized that it could be longer and wider. So Mark 2 was 1.5" wide and about 11" long. Same thing. Could go longer and wider still. Found a little lip inside the pillar quite low that the plate could rest on. Mark 3 was 2" wide and about 12" long. But it bound on the way in (the trick was to load the plate through that rectangular hole with the bottom out in the trunk and then manipulate the plate up into the C-pillar cavity. Marks 1 and 2 went in fine that way but Mark 3 bound a bit on one corner so I had to take it out and trim the one corner off.

Funny (not) thing, it slipped out of my hands as I was moving it out of the C-pillar cavity and it fell between the outer fender and wheel well tub, never to be seen again. Fortunately it was just hardboard and it won't rattle too much. (I need to try harder to get it out). (The plastic bag you see above the wheel well tub in the second photo is there to prevent me from losing another mock-up (DUH)).

So the remake of Mark 3 had its corner cut off which did the trick.

As shown in the photos below, this is going to be great. Tonnes of coverage of the existing C-pillar structure. Hope it goes as well when I cut the Mark 4 out of steel bar/sheet.

The horizontal piece of 2" wide green masking tape upper edge is the approximate location of that little ledge inside the C-pillar.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-22 3:49 PM




(56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Outside.jpg)



(56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Inside.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Outside.jpg (155KB - 53 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRearSeatbeltAnchorPlateMockUpMk3_Inside.jpg (220KB - 51 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-10-22 5:49 PM (#550808 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Nicely done. I am amazed that you could fit that in there.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-22 6:23 PM (#550809 - in reply to #550808)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Powerflite - 2017-10-22 5:49 PM Nicely done. I am amazed that you could fit that in there.


Me too.

I just started small(er) and made each iteration bigger and bigger. No need to go bigger than what I have now though. The tricks were a) running it into the trunk (above the wheel well tub) before feeding it into the C-pillar cavity and b) clipping that lower corner off to get the initial clearance to make the upwards turn.

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-23 7:03 PM (#550886 - in reply to #550809)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Just bought 5 ft of 2" wide x 3/16" hot-rolled bar stock for the mounting plate and 4 sq ft of 18 gauge galvanized for the C-pillar cover for $20. More material than I need but the price was right. Lowes was $11 for 3 ft of 2" x 1/8" bar and the 1/8" felt thin. Also bought flanged 7/16" x 20 nuts for the mount. I like the idea of the flange, more strength re: pull through.

Also bought a Eastwood flanging plier to crimp and edge or two.

Now to rescue a cereal box from the recycling bin to make the Mark 1 template for the cover.

The nuts are similar to this but 20 UNF



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-23 7:11 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-23 8:41 PM (#550900 - in reply to #550886)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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56D500boy - 2017-10-23 7:03 PM
Now to rescue a cereal box from the recycling bin to make the Mark 1 template for the cover.


Well that went well (except for all of the Two-scoops of Raisins and a few bran flakes who gave their lives for the box).

A couple more tweeks (like that leading edge point that is missing) and I can cut the first metal trial cover. There is at least 1/2" of cover tucked under the rear window gasket (on purpose).

The challenge will be how to finish the leading edge and figure out how to attach it to the body while trapping the new (yet to be ordered) windlace in that area. I don't want to think screws but it might be the solution.

Below this C-pillar cover and beside the seat, there will very likely be custom-fit panel of 1/8" thick ABS plastic, i.e. waterproof (not that this car will be out in any rain if I can help it) and cut to conform. Same attachment issue





Edited by 56D500boy 2017-10-23 9:11 PM




(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1Template.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-24 9:16 PM (#550984 - in reply to #550900)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Okay. I worked on three projects today:

1. Organizing the wine storage/Dodge parts storage room. Found a few things. Like another set of OE knobs for my radio. Also found some wine that I had forgotten about (unfortunately white which probably is past its best before date)

2. The gas pedal (some failures)

3. The C-pillar, the topic of this thread.

I used the cardboard template to create a Mark 1 metal cover from the 18 gauge galvanized steel I purchased yesterday. I had thought that I would be using my aircraft metal snips but ended up using my Bosch jig-saw with a new fine tooth metal blade. Cut pretty nicely. Cleaned up the edges with by Bosch angle grinder loaded with a sanding disc.

Tried it in the car. Tucked the rear edge under the rubber of the rear window. Marked up a few changes and then used it as a template to cut a Mark 2 cover. Pretty close. *IF* I feel like it I could cut a Mark 3 (I have enough galvanized to make two more panels, a Mark 3 right and a mirror image I presume, left. Not bad for $10.

I tried the flanging pliers on the rear edge of the Mark 1 metal panel and because the flange made it stiffer, I could NOT get it back into position. SO no flanging, at least on the rear edge.

There was something preventing the Mark 1 and Mark 2 cover panels from sitting tight to the body at the point where there will be windlace. I got out my body work hammer and remedied that situation (now the gap is about the same as the thickness of the thin edge of the windlace.

I also cut a piece of the hot-rolled 2" x 3/16" thick steel for the mounting plate based on the previous hardboard mock-up. I guessed a potential (likely) location of the 7/16" x 20 seat belt upper mounting nut and taped it to the back in case there was going to be an unforeseen clearance issue once the nut is welded on. It was a bit tricky getting the metal plate in there but it went. Might have to bend (arch) it a bit to get a tighter fit to the C-pillar. I had a temporary issue getting the plate out. It jambed strangely but I just need to twist it a bit and it came loose and I got it out.

Then I proceeded to blast the Rust Converted inner cavity with gray Zero-Rust paint followed by Tremclad Royal Blue on the exposed bits of the C-pillar.



(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1MetalCoverTrial.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial.jpg)



(56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Front.jpg)



(56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Back.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark1MetalCoverTrial.jpg (114KB - 60 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial.jpg (113KB - 49 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Front.jpg (180KB - 48 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeRearBeltMountingPlateInMetalWithNut_Back.jpg (181KB - 53 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-10-26 9:30 PM (#551136 - in reply to #550984)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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While it was still foggy and cold out this morning, I played around with Paint and created a possible mock-up of the covering of the metal C-pillar cover. It could use paint or the same light blue vinyl I have on part of the rear parcel tray. With or with out the polished aluminum strips (the upper one would be used to cover the headliner that would be glued to the top of the cover). Maybe. I'm just playing.

The rear parcel tray:



The C-pillar mock-up (plain and with the metal strips):







(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial_withPaint_1.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial_withPaint_2.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarCoverMark2MetalCoverTrial_withPaint_1.jpg (148KB - 55 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-11-14 5:13 PM (#552239 - in reply to #550984)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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56D500boy - 2017-10-24 9:16 PM
Then I proceeded to blast the Rust Converted inner cavity with gray Zero-Rust paint followed by Tremclad Royal Blue on the exposed bits of the C-pillar.


Got lost on the front seat belts and forgot to update this thread. Here is the Passenger C-pillar after the above steps.




(DForgies56DodgeCpillarShowingOEOpenings.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-11-28 8:36 PM (#553339 - in reply to #552239)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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I was trying the anchor plate in the driver's side C-pillar cavity the other day but dropped it down between the fender and the wheel well tub. I didn't panic. I was pretty sure that I could get it back somehow. Two days of off and on periodic trying and all sorts of mirrors and lights, camera shots and various parts-retrieval magnets, I had NOTHING. I could (just) see it but not retrieve it.

Then I tried a 3/4" x 1/4" x 3 ft piece of wooden molding that I had in the basement, from the trunk side of the space. With that I was able to dive under the metal plate and lift the metal plate up enough that I could get my arm down the lower C-pillar cavity and grab and retrieve the plate. YAY

This (but without the nut - which made it thin enough that it could fall between the wheel well tub and the fender) (too heavy for the magnets I had that would fit into that cavity):



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-11-28 8:38 PM
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-11-28 11:33 PM (#553346 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Hate it when that happens. When I welded these upper mounts into my '63 Nova wagon, I cut a hole in the B-pillar a little below where I wanted to put it and was trying it out, when I dropped it down into the pillar. I had no chance to get it out. I had spent a lot of time making it curved at the right radius to match the curved pillar, which wasn't easy to do and I had no intention of remaking it. So I ended up having to cut a hole at the bottom of the pillar just to get it back. I didn't' do that again. From then on, I tied it with a string before I began trying it out.

Edited by Powerflite 2017-11-28 11:35 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-12-04 9:19 PM (#553710 - in reply to #553339)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Turns out my C-pillar cover idea was not unique

Mine (work in progress)



I was looking at a video of the Solvang/Santa Barbara 56 D500 4dr Sedan and noticed this:

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onUCNTeCuKs

Screen capture (Shift Print Screen, processed with Irfanview):



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-12-04 9:20 PM




(SantaBarbara56CRD500SportingCPillarCover.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-10 1:37 AM (#563064 - in reply to #553710)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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In the seemingly never ending process of installing my carpet and putting the seats back in, I had discovered that I needed to install the new windlace before I could finalize the carpet install (with the sill plates, etc.)

Among many things, that meant I had to finalize the beside-the-rear-seat panels and the C-pillar shoulder belt mounts. I had only ever made one mounting plate and that wasn't even complete with the mounting nut so I had to almost start from scratch. The first thing I did was to try the metal version of the right side C-pillar mounting plate up inside the C-pillar. This time I placed a couple of plastic bags and a microfibre cloth in the gap between the fender and wheel well tub because based on previous experience, IF I fumbled the mount before the nut was welded on, the plate can (and did) slip down into that cavity. I was able to retrieve it but it was very tense.

Anyway, I got the right side mount in place and marked where I wanted the 1/2" hole for the 7/16" x 20 nut. Then I removed the plate and flipped it over and tried it in the left side C-pillar and marked its hole location (basically the same only reversed). Then I removed the trial plate and used it as a template to make another plate for the left side. Then I trialed the new plate in the left C-pillar cavity and marked the hole location on the new plate.

In messing with the left side C-pillar cavity, I discovered that the wiring harness for the taillights, signal lights, stop lights, reverse lights and the license plate light were bundled together and routed from the dash area up the A-pillar and into the space above the doors and then down the C-pillar to the trunk. Not a big deal but it meant that I would have to pay attention and not drill into the harness and then not pinch it when the plate got mounted.

With the plates marked, I drilled a 3/16" pilot hole and then a 1/2" hole in each of the two plates. Then I temporarily mounted the flanged 7/16" x 20 nut to the back of the respective plates using a short 7/16" x 20 bolt and nut from the interior side of the plate. Then I took the two plates to my neighbour who had agreed to weld the flanged nuts to the plate. He said "Tomorrow". I went back to the 56 and drilled the C-pillar in the selected location with the 1/2" bit and then continued to fit the left-side C-pillar cover.

I had previously trialled the right side C-pillar cover so I tried it reversed on the left side. Not exactly symmetrical so I used the plate as a template to cut a cereal box cardboard template a little bit larger. Then I trialled the cardboard template, trimming as needed. Then I cut the new right side cover from the 18 gauge galvanized sheet that I had bought previously. Further trialling and trimming followed (still needs a bit more to be honest).

"Tomorrow" arrived yesterday and my neighbour gave me the two plates with the nuts welded on last night.

Today I found out that the plates warped slightly during the welding process even thought they are 3/16" thick plate steel. As a result, I had to "adjust" them with a ball peen hammer. One or two trial fits and adjustments and I was ready to mark the location of the pop-rivets that would be used to hold the plates in place before the 7/16" x 20 bolt is placed into the nut and tightened.

With the plates held to the inside of the C-pillar, I drilled 1/8" holes through the C-pillar metal, and into the mounting plates - but only enough to mark the hole location. Then I removed the plates and took them to my work bench and drilled the 1/8" holes through the plates. Then I used a grinder to clean up the edges of the plates and the 1/8" holes before painting the plates with Tremclad Gloss Gray (no need to use Gray - I just did).

When the paint was dry enough, I put the plates back into the C-pillar cavities and used a 7/16" x 20 bolt to hold them in place while I lined up the 1/8" x 3/8" steel pop-rivets. Then I pop-riveted them in place and removed the bolts.

With that done, I went back to test fitting the C-pillar covers and a plastic transition strip that will be on the top of the beside-the-seat ABS panel and the bottom of the C-pillar cover.

Tomorrow I will finalize the fitment of the C-pillar covers and once I have them the way I want them, I am going to make cardboard duplicates. These duplicates will be used to determine the location of the hole in the cover plate that I will need to mount the shoulder belt. I plan on cutting a 2" opening in the cardboard duplicate in the area of the mounting nut. I will then cover this hole with clear packing tape (on both sides) and install the duplicates on the C-pillar. I will then mark the location of the nut on the clear tape with a Sharpie and then transfer that location to the metal plates. Then a 3/16" pilot hole in the metal plate, followed by the necessary 1/2" hole. I will then try the metal plates back on their respective C-pillars and trial the insertion of a bolt through the hole. I am pretty sure that I will need a metal spacer between back of the cover plate and the actual C-pillar to prevent distortion of the cover plate when I eventually tighten it down. Washers will probably work fine. I just don't know yet how many I will need on each side.

Here are the photos from today's work:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-10 1:47 AM




(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_BacksideShowingFlanged716thby20nutsOneLooseOneWeldedOn.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_InteriorSideWithFlangedNutWeldedOn.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideShowingExtraComplicationOfWiringHarness.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideShowingHowHolesRelateToMountingPlate.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMounts_BackSideDrilledForRivetsAndPainted.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMounts_InteriorSideDrilledForRivetsAndPainted.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_RightSideRivetedInPlace.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideRivetedInPlace.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_RightSideCPillarCoverFinalTrial.jpg)



(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideCPillarCoverTrial.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_BacksideShowingFlanged716thby20nutsOneLooseOneWeldedOn.jpg (124KB - 30 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_InteriorSideWithFlangedNutWeldedOn.jpg (125KB - 32 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideShowingExtraComplicationOfWiringHarness.jpg (157KB - 41 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideShowingHowHolesRelateToMountingPlate.jpg (147KB - 32 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMounts_BackSideDrilledForRivetsAndPainted.jpg (147KB - 32 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMounts_InteriorSideDrilledForRivetsAndPainted.jpg (139KB - 31 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_RightSideRivetedInPlace.jpg (147KB - 36 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideRivetedInPlace.jpg (137KB - 34 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_RightSideCPillarCoverFinalTrial.jpg (149KB - 31 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideCPillarCoverTrial.jpg (162KB - 28 downloads)
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DepsilonD
Posted 2018-05-10 1:07 PM (#563096 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Still following this one and will be replacing in our '56 Plymouth. Need to make that back seat, car seat ready for the little guy.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-10 1:35 PM (#563098 - in reply to #563096)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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DepsilonD - 2018-05-10 1:07 PM
Still following this one and will be replacing in our '56 Plymouth. Need to make that back seat, car seat ready for the little guy.


Fersure. Please remember that I had aftermarket lap belts in the car when I got it. I also had rotted C-pillar cloth covers and the beside-the-seat panels were crumbling plywood. As a result, I had to make the covers and panels anyway. I just thought that if I wanted rear outside shoulder belts, the time to do it was now, not later. So I did.

The anchor plates that I have made with the welding help of my neighbour are way over kill and probably only possible because I could see and get up inside the C-pillar. If your 56 Plymouth still has nice cloth C-pillar covers, I would develop a mount that is based on the rear parcel shelf, especially for a rear-facing baby seat.

For these rear belts, I am going for the non-retractable option from Seat Belt Planet (where I got my front retracting seat belts):

https://www.seatbeltplanet.com/seatbelts-and-accessories/lap-shoulde...



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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-10 1:41 PM (#563099 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Those non-retractables are a good choice for the rear unless you can modify the rear seat frame to make the retractable work. The seat frame leaves very little room for them to work. I like your anchor plates. Those look like they should do the job well. I would weld them in place just because I can, but it looks like they are held in place pretty well as you have them.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-10 2:23 PM (#563104 - in reply to #563099)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Powerflite - 2018-05-10 1:41 PM
Those non-retractables are a good choice for the rear unless you can modify the rear seat frame to make the retractable work. The seat frame leaves very little room for them to work. I like your anchor plates. Those look like they should do the job well. I would weld them in place just because I can, but it looks like they are held in place pretty well as you have them.


Thanks for the comments Nathan. If I could weld, I probably would have welded the plates in place too. However, the welds would not add much to the pull-out resistance of these plates. They are 3/16" thick x 2" wide by about 10" long and together with the flanged nut become one "super-nut" that would require destroying the C-pillar to pull out (assuming that the bolt didn't break). The rivets are not there for strength, just to keep the plates in place before the 7/16" x 20 upper seat belt mounting bolt is put in place. That said, if I had found the 3/16" rivets that I must have (somewhere - I used them on the B-pillar seat belt mounts), I would have used them instead of the 1/8" rivets. No biggy.

The plate outside the C-pillar and the out line of the plate inside the C-pillar. It's not going anywhere soon.







(56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideRivetedInPlace_Annotated.jpg)



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Attachments 56DodgeCPillarUpperSeatBeltMount_LeftSideRivetedInPlace_Annotated.jpg (225KB - 36 downloads)
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-05-10 2:33 PM (#563105 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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I agree Dave. it is plenty strong. The welds or rivets are just for getting the hardware mounted. It should work out well. Now you'll have to ride back there to give them a try!
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-10 10:07 PM (#563123 - in reply to #563064)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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So I carried on today. First up was trimming the left-side C-pillar cover. Then it was trialing the C-pillar covers with the beside-the-seat ABS panels and determining how much to cut off the bottom of the metal cover to accommodate the transition moulding (1/8" "Burlap" panel moulding from Lowes). Then retrying the panel and cover with a short piece of the moulding. Then I played "Minesweeper/Battleship" to locate the hole in the C-pillar cover that would line up with the seat-belt mounting nut from yesterday.

Instead of a cardboard template with a window, I removed the cover and put masking tape on the rear window rubber moulding and marked a line from a reference mark to the center of the nut hole (which I covered with masking tape). Then I measured that distance and replaced the metal cover and marked the line and distance on the cover. Then I drilled a 1/8" hole through the cover and into the hole. I removed the cover to see where the hole landed and then adjusted the location of the hole, added a new piece of masking tape over the nut hole and tried again. Took 3 tries on the right side but I got the left side bang on the first time.

Tomorrow I need to cut away some of the OE headliner attachment frames (on both sides) so the C-pillar covers can sit down better. Then I will probably drill a small hole at the tip of the cover for a small counter-sunk screw. If I play my cards right with the plastic transition moulding, I might be able to slide the upper moulding towards the rear window, insert the screw and then slide the moulding over the screw. Details to be determined. I plan on painting the mouldings the with shiniest "chrome" paint that I have.

I am probably going to cover the metal C-pillar covers with the lighter of the two vinyls that I bought for the rear parcel tray. It's going to be obvious that the covers are NOT OE so I might as well have fun with them.

I plan to order the rear seat belts tomorrow.

A summary of today's work:



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-05-10 10:10 PM




(DaveFs56DodgeLeftSideCPillarCoverWithSeatBeltMountHoleAndTransitionTrimTrials.jpg)



(DaveFs56DodgeRightSideCPillarCoverWithSeatBeltMountHoleAndTransitionTrimTrials.jpg)



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Attachments DaveFs56DodgeLeftSideCPillarCoverWithSeatBeltMountHoleAndTransitionTrimTrials.jpg (144KB - 32 downloads)
Attachments DaveFs56DodgeRightSideCPillarCoverWithSeatBeltMountHoleAndTransitionTrimTrials.jpg (125KB - 32 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-11 2:14 PM (#563159 - in reply to #563123)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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56D500boy - 2018-05-10 10:07 PM
I plan to order the rear seat belts tomorrow.


Just placed my order with Steve at Seat Belt Planet for two outboard three-point non-retractable seat belts, one center lap-only belt and incidental hardware. Because I am going to be sharing the middle two mounting points for the inner female three-point receivers and the male and female center belt sections, I needed to go from Grade 5 to Grade 8 bolts for those two locations. $2 more. Not a deal breaker.

Now back to finishing those C-pillar covers (and the B-pillar covers) so I can move forward with the windlace installation and finally get to finalize the carpet installation and put the seats back in.

That would mean I would actually be able to drive the car !!! Shocking !!

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56D500boy
Posted 2018-05-13 11:02 PM (#563320 - in reply to #563159)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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In preparation for the installation of the new windlace, I covered the C-pillar covers with the same light blue vinyl as the lighter of the two blue vinyls I used on the rear parcel tray. Will look good once I paint that white transition moulding "chrome".

The right side during the trial "dry" install of the new windlace today:



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-06 9:15 PM (#567948 - in reply to #563320)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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56D500boy - 2018-05-13 11:02 PM
In preparation for the installation of the new windlace, I covered the C-pillar covers with the same light blue vinyl as the lighter of the two blue vinyls I used on the rear parcel tray. Will look good once I paint that white transition moulding "chrome".


Well, not bad, only almost 3 months later and I am 99% done with the seat belts. Just need to paint the D-ring cover and deal with the transition molding at the top of the C-pillar cover.

I've ended up with both outboard seating positions having non-retractable 3-point shoulder/lap belts and the middle position with a lap belt. Should be good.

This is the first time both the rear seat back and bottom have been in the car at the same time since probably November.

Yippee!!



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-08-06 9:21 PM




(56Dodge4drSedanWithOutboardThreePointSeatBeltsAndCenterLapBelt.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-08-06 10:37 PM (#567952 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge


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nice.. someone actually caring about safety... im kinda shocked
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-06 11:11 PM (#567954 - in reply to #567952)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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mikes2nd - 2018-08-06 10:37 PM
nice.. someone actually caring about safety... im kinda shocked


Oops. Didn't I say I was a P.Eng.? (Safety goes with the territory, i.e. do no harm).



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-07 9:54 PM (#568033 - in reply to #567948)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Somebody contacted me and wanted to know what the rear belts really looked like in action. So I found somebody (neighbour) to take my photo sitting in the rear seat. Really must loose some belly weight.



(UnknownDufussInRightRearPassengerSeat_1.jpg)



(UnknownDufussInRightRearPassengerSeat_2.jpg)



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51coronet
Posted 2018-08-07 11:10 PM (#568039 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge


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nice job on that! I like it.

I hear a T-booster will help with the belly.
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DepsilonD
Posted 2018-08-08 12:39 PM (#568068 - in reply to #550632)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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Very nice Dave F! Thanks for posting.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-08-08 12:48 PM (#568069 - in reply to #568068)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge



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DepsilonD - 2018-08-08 12:39 PM
Very nice Dave F! Thanks for posting.


Hope that helps you Dave N. I wonder whether the D-ring mount should have been a bit higher but it works for me. I think the strap is a bit long and will consider shortening it.

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sermey
Posted 2018-08-09 1:38 AM (#568113 - in reply to #568033)
Subject: Re: Towards the installation of three point seat belts in Rear of 56 Dodge


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A nice job you did here, Dave F. It not only looks nice, but is done solid and works. Congrat!
Finally a detailed presentation from beginning to end -  interesting to follow.

Thanks   - SERGE - 

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