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Pre-FL Functional air scoop
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-01-28 11:48 AM (#532535)
Subject: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Anybody have any details (photos, links, etc) on how the 53 Dodge Coronet V8 functional hood scoop actually worked (as in the ducting towards the aircleaner or...)?? I look at the hood ornament on my 56 Dodge and notice the potential for a functional hood scoop that is too enticing to ignore.





(56DodgeCustomRoyalD500PotentialHoodScoop.jpg)



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StillOutThere
Posted 2017-01-28 5:17 PM (#532547 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Photo of the engine compartment of a '53 Coronet I owned about 17 years ago.   There was no special ducting or anything of the sort.   Don't read too much into what the marketing and advertising departments write into the sales brochures.





(53Dodge7.jpg)



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Lancer Mike
Posted 2017-01-29 6:11 PM (#532626 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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So you are thinking of cutting a hole in your '56 hood? I can't imagine a hole in the hood would have any effect on performance - might look cool though!
It seems like you would have to fabricate a direct intake into the air cleaner to make it function. Still, I don't know if you would see a performance difference...
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-01-29 6:56 PM (#532630 - in reply to #532626)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Lancer Mike - 2017-01-29 6:11 PM So you are thinking of cutting a hole in your '56 hood? I can't imagine a hole in the hood would have any effect on performance - might look cool though!
It seems like you would have to fabricate a direct intake into the air cleaner to make it function. Still, I don't know if you would see a performance difference...


Yeah, that is the idea that I am toying with. I am going to take the big chrome bit off anyway when the weather gets better and I paint the top of the hood. While I am there I might cut a hole behind the louvered "scoop" portion. The trick would be running a cold air duct from the (hidden) hood "scoop" to the air cleaner. Obstacles in the way include the radiator support bulk head and the radiator.

Both of my other two cars (Audis) have factory cold air induction. Inlet scoops at/through the rad support and then ducting to the air cleaner (box). Knowing that cold air is better for performance and see that potential scoop on the 56 is very enticing. I would probably have to go to a snorkel type air cleaner and create ducting with fiberglass over a foam core. Probably just a pipe dream. But an enticing one to me.

The 1993 UrS4 line-line 5 20 valve 350 hp turbo:



The 1994 UrS4 32 Valve 4.2L V8:



Lock carrier (rad support) 101: http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/61928.phtml
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1960fury
Posted 2017-05-21 1:05 PM (#540510 - in reply to #532626)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Lancer Mike - 2017-01-29 6:11 PM

So you are thinking of cutting a hole in your '56 hood? I can't imagine a hole in the hood would have any effect on performance - might look cool though!


it certainly has a positive effect on performance and efficiency if you can somehow direct the incoming air to the carb. cold air makes more power, engine idles smoother. the ram effect is proven too but only at higher speeds.
not a big fan of cutting in original parts but that would be too hard to resist considering the benefits and look of it. i'm using a cold/ram air system in my golden commando fury and highly recommend that.
great find by the way dave! i didn't know about that and that in an early 50s car!
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-21 1:15 PM (#540511 - in reply to #540510)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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1960fury - 2017-05-21 1:05 PM
Lancer Mike - 2017-01-29 6:11 PM
So you are thinking of cutting a hole in your '56 hood? I can't imagine a hole in the hood would have any effect on performance - might look cool though!
it certainly has a positive effect on performance and efficiency if you can somehow direct the incoming air to the carb. cold air makes more power, engine idles smoother. the ram effect is proven too but only at higher speeds. not a big fan of cutting in original parts but that would be too hard to resist considering the benefits and look of it. i'm using a cold/ram air system in my golden commando fury and highly recommend that.
great find by the way dave! i didn't know about that and that in an early 50s car!


I just scored a very nice 56 Dodge hood ornament on eBay and was polishing it up nicely yesterday, looking at the "scoop". Thanks for replying. It's serving as a memory jog.

On my recent trip to California, at one low key/ad hoc "Ruby's" parking lot car show, there was a 55 chev with a later fuel injected V8 and it had a cold air intake through the rad support. My car isn't that important that I couldn't put a hole in the rad support if I wanted to.

Dave F.



(55ChevyWithColdAirInduction.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2017-05-21 5:12 PM (#540533 - in reply to #540511)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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heres the system i put on my ex 61 desoto coupe. went 130+ easily with the high mileage factory detuned low compression 361.



(desoto17.jpg)



(desoto16.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-21 8:02 PM (#540548 - in reply to #540533)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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1960fury - 2017-05-21 5:12 PM heres the system i put on my ex 61 desoto coupe. went 130+ easily with the high mileage factory detuned low compression 361.


Very nice. Very nice indeed.

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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-05-22 5:06 AM (#540570 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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That last pic, I could have sworn that's the front of a '59 Buick Electra...
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-22 9:47 AM (#540587 - in reply to #540570)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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BigBlockMopar - 2017-05-22 5:06 AM That last pic, I could have sworn that's the front of a '59 Buick Electra...


Interesting thought. Both have canted dual headlights (but the angles are different)

1961 Desoto canted headlights (quite vertical)



1959 Buick (canted but laid down more than the Desoto (or Chyrsler)):



1961 Chrysler:

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57burb
Posted 2017-05-22 1:22 PM (#540600 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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I don't think you could just put a "tube" that leads from the hood scoop, over the radiator, and up to the snorkel air cleaner. What would you have when opening the hood? A big dangly dryer hose? :D

Maybe you could create an inlet tract that would form a seal when the hood is closed.

I'm building a scoop for the hood of my Chrysler. I haven't decided yet if it will be "functional," as most that you think would be, actually are not. The engine compartment can build a lot of pressure in cars with open grilles. At certain speeds, air can actually come out of an open scoop.

It's further along than this, but gives you an idea.



(20170402_144621.jpg)



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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-05-22 4:11 PM (#540619 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Air scoops need to be sealed off completely from the rest of the engine bay otherwise they might/will work the opposite way like Danny mentions.
An incospicous lower front spoiler could help lower the underhood pressures at higher speeds.
Lower underhood air pressure also prevents steering to become overly light and 'vague' at high speeds.
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-05-22 8:25 PM (#540652 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Danny, did you form that scoop yourself or cut it from another application? Those are impressive metal forming skills if you made it yourself. It fits the hood really well.
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57burb
Posted 2017-05-23 10:44 AM (#540709 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Nathan, the scoop is made from the center section of an old Jeep hood.



(1.JPG)



(3.jpg)



(4.jpg)



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Powerflite
Posted 2017-05-23 12:50 PM (#540724 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Very resourceful, I like it.
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-05-23 11:54 PM (#540774 - in reply to #540724)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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Powerflite - 2017-05-23 12:50 PM

Very resourceful, I like it. :)


Here is one for the 57/58 Dodge guys.

"Factory" racing team?? Who knows??

Greg



(image.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-05-24 12:01 AM (#540775 - in reply to #540774)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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Note the clip to tie down the hood!

That photo courtesy of the late Neil Vedder.

Greg
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1960fury
Posted 2017-05-24 8:10 AM (#540790 - in reply to #540548)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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56D500boy - 2017-05-21 8:02 PM

1960fury - 2017-05-21 5:12 PM heres the system i put on my ex 61 desoto coupe. went 130+ easily with the high mileage factory detuned low compression 361.


Very nice. Very nice indeed.

:)


thanks, these cars push a lot of air at high speeds and i like the idea that some of that pressurised air is used as an advantage. it works just great. heres the system in my 60 fury coupe. i had troubles with blown air box seals above 130 mph. (disregard the blue blob:)



(ramairk1.jpg)



(ramairk2.jpg)



(ramairk3.jpg)



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Swept57
Posted 2017-05-24 9:08 AM (#540796 - in reply to #540774)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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LD3 Greg - 2017-05-23 11:54 PM

Powerflite - 2017-05-23 12:50 PM

Very resourceful, I like it. :)


Here is one for the 57/58 Dodge guys.

"Factory" racing team?? Who knows??

Greg


That is Norm Thatcher's D-501.
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57burb
Posted 2017-05-24 10:54 AM (#540803 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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User Mike P used a scoop from a '63 Thunderbird to clear the air cleaner on his '57 sedan.

(more pics on this thread)



(PLy hood scoop.JPG)



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Chrome58
Posted 2017-05-25 5:01 AM (#540864 - in reply to #540790)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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1960fury - 2017-05-24 2:10 PM

i had troubles with blown air box seals above 130 mph

130 mph ???? 210 kph ???
Seriously ?
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1960fury
Posted 2017-05-25 7:37 AM (#540868 - in reply to #540864)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Chrome58 - 2017-05-25 5:01 AM

1960fury - 2017-05-24 2:10 PM

i had troubles with blown air box seals above 130 mph

130 mph ???? 210 kph ???
Seriously ?


top speed is way beyond that. i guess since 1959 the laws of physics have not changed. stuck with OE parts including the tiny single afb and the restrictive OE intake the pettys hit officially 150+ mph in their 60 plymouths.
my car makes more power, weights less and uses some performance enhancing "tricks" not available for 1960 stock cars. at 145 mph the pedal is not 100% floored. its a 6.3 liter that revs to 6k in a feather light unibody with a 2.93 rear end.

i once had an old opel diesel wagon with a @ 105 hp high mileage motor that could hit (indicated) 123 mph on a good day. 130 mph with 400+ hp, nothing special.


Edited by 1960fury 2017-05-25 8:12 AM
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-05-25 11:52 PM (#540919 - in reply to #540796)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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Swept57 - 2017-05-24 9:08 AM

LD3 Greg - 2017-05-23 11:54 PM

Powerflite - 2017-05-23 12:50 PM

Very resourceful, I like it. :)


Here is one for the 57/58 Dodge guys.

"Factory" racing team?? Who knows??

Greg


That is Norm Thatcher's D-501.


Yeah, it is Norm Thatchers car but is it a super D or a 501?
Greg
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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-05-25 11:53 PM (#540920 - in reply to #540919)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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LD3 Greg - 2017-05-25 11:52 PM

Swept57 - 2017-05-24 9:08 AM

LD3 Greg - 2017-05-23 11:54 PM

Powerflite - 2017-05-23 12:50 PM

Very resourceful, I like it. :)


Here is one for the 57/58 Dodge guys.

"Factory" racing team?? Who knows??

Greg


That is Norm Thatcher's D-501.


Yeah, it is Norm Thatchers car but is it a super D or a 501?
Greg


I meant to include this.



(image.jpg)



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LD3 Greg
Posted 2017-05-25 11:57 PM (#540921 - in reply to #540920)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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Nothing on the trunk lid!

Greg
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Powerflite
Posted 2017-05-26 1:15 AM (#540926 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Maybe he was in stealth mode and took it off. The couple that raced my '68 Barracuda on the streets in the 70's put a 440 in it, but installed 273 emblems on the fenders to fool potential contenders. Although in Norm's case, the non-stock hood scoop would probably give it away.
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Swept57
Posted 2017-05-26 11:19 AM (#540938 - in reply to #540921)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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LD3 Greg - 2017-05-25 11:57 PM

Nothing on the trunk lid!

Greg


I identified Norm's car as a D-501 based on what Neil told me. Some of the early 501's didn't get the emblem, they also didn't have a special body code either.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-05-28 10:35 PM (#541075 - in reply to #540938)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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These 1956 Dodge hood eBay photos don't make it easier to resist cutting and air scoop slot.



Just sayin'



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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2017-05-29 6:03 AM (#541095 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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"Forward looking air scoops"... (get it? ) need to be at the very front of a hood.
Airscoops that are positioned halfway down and in the center of a hood aren't very effective as there's not much airpressure in that area.
Fast flowing air encountering the hood tends to curve up a little higher then the hood itself in the center, only to come 'down' again near the windshield, where it's swooped up again over the roof of the car.



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1960fury
Posted 2017-05-29 6:33 AM (#541099 - in reply to #541095)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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very good picture bigblock and it shows (vacuum/drag area) that "our" cars are not that "brick"-aerodynamic as people think. any modern wagon probably creates more vacuum/drag than a 60 fury coupe.

the best location for a ramair inlet funnel is the front of the car.

Edited by 1960fury 2017-05-29 6:36 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-21 9:01 PM (#558586 - in reply to #541099)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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1960fury - 2017-05-29 6:33 AM
the best location for a ramair inlet funnel is the front of the car.


Found this Cool Air Induction "Soup up your car" article (partial) and advert in the Aug. 56 Issue of Car Life. I am liking the cable operated flapper valve that you could leave closed if the weather was real cold but open up on the highway in the summer/spring/fall.

Edited by 56D500boy 2018-02-21 9:06 PM




(CarLifeAug1956_CoolAirInduction2_small.jpg)



(CarLifeAug1956_CoolAirInduction3_small.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2018-02-23 2:10 PM (#558682 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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i have hundreds of old car mags, but never saw that before. great, thanks for sharing. please keep us updated about what you decide to do. i'd open it up. cold air will make it run smoother and more efficient.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-02-23 2:17 PM
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mikes2nd
Posted 2018-02-23 4:21 PM (#558710 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop


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that jeep hood almost has a 300C look to it.
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mstrug
Posted 2018-02-23 7:11 PM (#558725 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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hmmm



(my58wagsm2.jpg)



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57burb
Posted 2018-02-24 4:05 PM (#558774 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Here is a pic of it in primer.



(20626411_1764356726926452_8919535165975749954_o.jpg)



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57burb
Posted 2018-02-26 5:37 PM (#558856 - in reply to #558774)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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.



(scoop.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-02-26 5:52 PM (#558857 - in reply to #558856)
Subject: RE: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Looking real good. Looks very factory, like they should have done it that way from the get-go. I like it.



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mstrug
Posted 2018-02-26 8:16 PM (#558865 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Great work Danny!
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57burb
Posted 2018-02-27 10:02 AM (#558906 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Thank you for the compliments, guys. It was a lot of work and I'm ecstatic about how it turned out.

It would be cool if it were 'functional' as per the thread title, but I didn't want to hide the engine under a bunch of ducts and seals. If it was some kind of race car it would be worth it.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-02-27 11:55 AM (#558912 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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If you cut the hole for it, it will at least provide cool air directly to your motor. Not as beneficial as low pressure induction, but better than sucking the air out from behind the radiator.
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57burb
Posted 2018-02-27 1:38 PM (#558918 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Eh, I really don't want a bunch of rain and dirt pouring on the engine as a tradeoff for a few degrees cooler air under the hood - especially since it still has that very restrictive side saddle air cleaner and WCFB.

I also don't want to create a high pressure area in the engine compartment that could screw up the cooling system airflow.

I've got a bigger cam on the shelf and a Hilborn stack injection I want to convert to EFI. I might consider doing something more with the hood then.
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Powerflite
Posted 2018-02-27 2:04 PM (#558923 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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I like those Hilborn injection systems, but I never came up with an air cleaner for them that I liked for everyday use. If you can incorporate an air cleaner into the base of the hood for them, that would be pretty cool.

Edited by Powerflite 2018-02-27 2:06 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-07 12:17 PM (#559399 - in reply to #558586)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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I've always liked the look of the "Cadillac" style air cleaner. This one has been modified with two snorkels that car begging for connection to ducting through the rad support.



Vaguely like the Ford Fairlaine Thunderbolt intake



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-11 2:38 PM (#559681 - in reply to #559399)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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56D500boy - 2018-03-07 12:17 PM
I've always liked the look of the "Cadillac" style air cleaner. This one has been modified with two snorkels that car begging for connection to ducting through the rad support.
Vaguely like the Ford Fairlaine Thunderbolt intake.


I found one of those Cadillac style air cleaners at the local Chevy/Ford Old Car Centre. Two diameters. The smallest was about 16" diameter and might clear my PS pump.

BUT then I realized that my battery is in the way of the possibility of twin ducts.

Using this as the idea:



What years have a single snorkle paper filter air cleaner with a 4 7/32" throat to fit on a WCFB 4 bbl carb?

Something like this on a 58 Plymouth suburban wagon?



Edited by 56D500boy 2018-03-11 2:41 PM




(1958PlymouthSuburban_04_700.jpg)



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57burb
Posted 2018-03-12 10:00 AM (#559728 - in reply to #559681)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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Two thoughts.

First, your stock '56 315 engine would get more than enough cool air from a single duct. I am sure two would satisfy your OCD though.

Second, ducting from the core support bypasses the need for a 'functional' scoop on the hood.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-12 1:06 PM (#559753 - in reply to #559728)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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57burb - 2018-03-12 10:00 AM
Two thoughts.
First, your stock '56 315 engine would get more than enough cool air from a single duct. I am sure two would satisfy your OCD though.
Second, ducting from the core support bypasses the need for a 'functional' scoop on the hood. :bleh:


Agree with both comments (well, except the OCD insinuation )

With a single snorkel air cleaner, I could run the ducting to a new hole in the rad support along this pathway:





(DForgies56D500EngineBayShowingPotentialPathForColdAirDuctingToRadSupport.jpg)



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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-12 8:50 PM (#559779 - in reply to #559753)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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56D500boy - 2018-03-12 1:06 PM
With a single snorkel air cleaner, I could run the ducting to a new hole in the rad support along this pathway:


And then through the bulkhead and onto a scoop that would be fed from the grill area as illustrated below:



(56DodgeRadSupportBulkhead_Annotated.jpg)



(56DodgeFrontGrill_AnnotedToShowPotentialLocationForHiddenAirScoop.jpg)



(4inchTo3inchReducer.jpg)



(PotentialBehindGrillInletBoot.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2018-03-12 8:55 PM (#559780 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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requires some fabrication but without a doubt i'd use the "opening" under the hood chrome and extend the entry under the hood (if theres enough room above the radiator) then fabricate an a/c housing with a large square funnel like inlet* that faces the hood cold air "channel". maybe the required gap between hood and a/c hsg could be sealed with foam, not easy but doable. that chrome thingy looks too tempting as an air grabber

* like air box model 14x3S here:

http://www.ramairbox.com/models.html

that square funnel you posted above, less favorable. try to avoid sudden transition from large to small (inlet to engine outlet) make it smooth, helps ramming the air.

Edited by 1960fury 2018-03-12 9:23 PM




(14x3s.jpg)



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1960fury
Posted 2018-03-12 9:14 PM (#559781 - in reply to #532535)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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looking at the 56 again... when using the hood/chrome as a cold air inlet you got 2 options, one is aesthetically more pleasing but the opening would be a bit too small, if you cut the hood under the chrome not further than the teeth in the chrome, or slightly short. it would give the teeth a grill-like, factory original appearance. the other is to create a bigger opening, but not sure how it would look like with the teeth hanging in the air.
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56D500boy
Posted 2018-03-12 9:31 PM (#559785 - in reply to #559781)
Subject: Re: Pre-FL Functional air scoop



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1960fury - 2018-03-12 9:14 PM

looking at the 56 again... when using the hood/chrome as a cold air inlet you got 2 options, one is aesthetically more pleasing but the opening would be a bit too small, if you cut the hood under the chrome not further than the teeth in the chrome, or slightly short. it would give the teeth a grill-like, factory original appearance. the other is to create a bigger opening, but not sure how it would look like with the teeth hanging in the air.


I had a look at the rad support this afternoon and it comes up tight to the hood obviously. To run the toothed factory "scoop" I would have to create a notch in the rad support. But I couldn't go too deep because of the rad top tank.

I think going through the bulkhead like you did would be a better way to go. Thanks also for the lead on "ram-air" boxes. The other way to go might be a 59-61 383 Air cleaner, if 4 1/8" for an AFB is really the same as 4 7/32" for a WCFB.





(59-61GoldenLionAirCleaner.jpg)



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