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Expert
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Location: Pacific Northwest | I was sitting around chatting with a friend this weekend and we got to talking about some of the Canadian and U.S. variations. Of course we talked about the swapping of the front ends thus creating the Plodges we all know and love. There were the 313 and 318 engine differences. And the Windsor built '61 Plymouth that I have was optioned with the Dodge interior, dash pad and the Plymouth script is absent from the horn ring.
Then my friend tells me of a '63 Dodge Dart wagon that he was looking at that was equipped with the Plymouth dash and Fury interior. How cool would that be, I thought, if they had installed the '61 Dart dash in the Plymouth and vise versa?
So was there any rhyme or reason to the differences created by Detroit and Windsor? Anybody know if they all sat around and discussed how and what they were going to do in order to make them "same same, only different"? And then what other kinds of differences can you think of? |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: North of the 49th | Hi
Here's some reading for ya....http://www.allpar.com/world/canada.html |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
 
Location: Perth Australia | My Australian built 60 phoenix has a RHD Plymouth dash but all 60 dodge trimming, but I have also seen them here
with 61 dodge interiors (still with the Plymouth dash)
They all came with the 2 button heater control (not the 5 button) but the "Deluxe" version had a mopar truck heater fitted with a 4 knob panel for heater control
that screwed under the centre of the dash
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | Regarding my 61 Canadian Windsor (actually a US Newport). Ian (imopar380) help me understand that I didn't have a frankenmobile. Upgraded interior came from high end Dodge, generator instead of alternator, 361 vs 383 that was in the US Windsor , no Windsor script on quarter panel. I think it came standard with what were options on a US Newport, large rear window, chrome trim around inside of windows, clear steering wheel, remote mirror, fake "Flite Deck" (sp?) -possibly more, but can't think of any right now. I hope Ian will respond to verify or correct. Logic for the package? Probably have to talk to original Canadian marketing folks.
Edited by Ray 2016-12-19 7:37 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Invermere B.C. Canada - Rocky Mountains | ABloch - 2016-12-19 12:40 PM So was there any rhyme or reason to the differences created by Detroit and Windsor? Anybody know if they all sat around and discussed how and what they were going to do in order to make them "same same, only different"? And then what other kinds of differences can you think of?
I would think it is all about the money.
That was certainly true about the Canadian models, much cheaper to only build one frame and most of the body all the same. Please don’t get me wrong, as I have two Chrysler products now and have had many over my lifetime, but to think that Mother Chrysler actually planned or thought out some of the combinations that they came up with would be hard to believe.
Not a forward look, so I will be stoned or shot at sunrise, but a good indicator of how early they started the Plodge thing, this is a ‘53 (I think) Dodge that I have with SAVOY emblems on the front fenders?
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
It all came down to costs - costs of production, to be precise. The Canadian market was one tenth of the U.S. and thus Canadian car sales were one tenth of the U.S. But the cost of tooling and producing parts was not one tenth of the U.S. and the costs of the parts put into production had to be amortized over one tenth the number of vehicles.
Thus the Canadian market got the Plymouth-based Dodges, Chevrolet-based Pontiacs and Ford-based Meteors. Dodges and Meteors used Plymouth and Ford interiors and instrument panels, respectively, while Canadian Pontiacs used Pontiac instrument panels and, in some series, upholstery . During the 1960's Pontiac was number one or two in Canadian sales and thus had a greater number of vehicles to spread the costs.
The Plymouth-based Dodge was also built in the U.S. from 1935 through 1959 for export markets, such as Australia, Europe, New Zealand, South America, and Hawaii (before 1959) and used Plymouth instrument panels and interiors. The first Canadian-built Plymouth-based Dodge was in 1934, the model DT.
The period from 1958 to 1962 was a period of tough going for Chrysler of Canada. Production in 1955 hit 77.000 (22.74%), and with GM dealing with a 5 month strike at the beginning of the 1956 model year, Chrysler of Canada hit 105,474 (29.32%) for 1956. Then the slide began, 1957 to 78,208 (21.39%), 1958 to 42,614 (15.14%) and almost bottom to 44,292 for 1959 and 42,363 (14.19%) for 1960. Rock bottom was 1962 with 41,711 (10.60%). (Today things are much better today with Chrysler being #1 in Canada for 2015 (Ford was #2 and GM#3) and looking like 2016 might be the same.)
With the falling numbers, Chrysler of Canada started cutting costs by having the 1958 Custom Royal, Firedome and Windsor all use the same 354 poly V8. For 1959 The Windsor used a modified version of the Custom Royal interior and the Firedome used the Saratoga interior. Engines were now the 361 for the Custom Royal and Windsor and the B-block 383 for the Firedome and Saratoga. The same interiors and engines held for 1960. 1960 was the last year for the DeSoto in Canada and as well as the last year for the Polara. Valiant production started for 1960 and was sold at both Plymouth and Dodge dealers.
In 1959 Chrysler Canada cut costs by combining the Plymouth-Chrysler-Fargo and Dodge-DeSoto sales divisions into one, although keeping the separate dealers networks. For 1961 the dealer networks became Plymouth-Chrysler-Valiant-Fargo Truck and Dodge-Chrysler-Valiant-Dodge Truck. The 1961 Plymouth and Dart used the Plymouth instrument panel with Dart upholstery and the Windsor used modified 1960 interior trim. No Lancers, Polaras or DeSotos Canada for 1961 or Custom 880s in 1962.
From 1960 to 1962 the generator was standard equipment on all Canadian-built cars with the alternator being optional. Also, Canadian-built Chrysler cars would not get a fuse box until 1962. And in 1962 the V8 engines adopted the new reduction gear starter but the slant six continued to use the Prestolite (formerly Autolite) starter.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | To answer a couple of other comments -
The all-steel, 2 door Suburban wagon was introduced in 1949 using the low-priced DeLuxe trim. For 1951, a 2 door wagon using the more expensive Special DeLuxe (now called Cranbrook for Plymouth and Regent for Dodge) was introduced and called the Savoy.
For 1953 the bottom line Cambridge and Crusader called the 2 door wagon the Suburban, while the upscale Cranbrook and Regent again called the 2 door wagon the Savoy.
In 1954 the Savoy name replaced the Cranbrook name for the middle series and all Plymouth and Dodge wagons became Suburban.
By the way, from 1941 to 1952 Dodge used the DeSoto-Chrysler body and the small Dodge fenders were basically Plymouth fenders with the holes for bolts, etc. stamped to hold the Dodge grille. For 1953 and 1954 the small Dodge used the same front end sheet metal as the US-built 114" wheelbase six cylinder Meadowbrook and Coronet hardtops, convertibles and wagons. From 1955 to 1959 the front end sheet metal is the same for both size Dodges.
For the Canadian-built 1961 Chrysler Windsor, standard equipment included front and rear carpets, front and rear foam rubber sat cushions, hand brake warning light, lights for glove box, trunk, and backup, chrome drip rail moulding, front and rear door interior light switches, large Solex shaded rear window on hardtops, seat side shields, variable speed windshield wipers, wheel covers, and Torqueflite transmisson.
Optional equipment included power antenna, automatic beam changer, rear bumper guards, electric clock, Flight-Sweep deck lid, rear window defogger, Sure-Grip, upper door covers, rear license plate frame, vacuum door locks, manual interior day-night mirror, left outside mirror, right outside mirror, outside remote control mirror, sill moulding (comes with stone shields), two tone paint, power steering, power brakes, power seat (6-way), Golden Tone radio, rear seat speaker, custom padded steering wheel, tinted glass all windows with shaded windshield, whitewall tires, undercoating and hood insulating pad, and windshield washers.
Finally, the Custom Conditionaire Heater and Defroster was not standard, but was a mandatory option. You got one, and paid extra for it, whether you wanted it or not.
Edited by Chrycoman 2016-12-22 6:09 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1737
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Chrycoman - 2016-12-22 3:55 PM
Finally, the Custom Conditionaire Heater and Defroster was not standard, but was a mandatory option. You got one, and paid extra for it, whether you wanted it or not.
I find it so funny that they did it that way. My '57 Plymouth-Chrysler Salesman's Data book lists the "Heater, Custom Conditionaire" in the standard and optional equipment list, then has (mandatory) printed behind that, then has "Extra" under all the model columns. Why didn't they just list it as a standard feature, and add the cost into the base price? Maybe to play the dealer price game? |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
That "mandatory option" was a way to advertise a lower base price. Of course, who would order a car without a heater in Canada, even in British Columbia. (Right now my car is under about three inches of snow and it is below freezing in Vancouver.) But it still looked good to someone comparing car prices.
That was quite common back in the early 1930's when a lower advertised base price was necessary to attract buyers. The number of people who could afford a car was thinned substantially due to the number of jobs lost and those that were working were usually making less money. So, you would see ads for a Make-X 4 door sedan at only $995. A car listing for under a thousand dollars was a good deal back then.
However, there would be a little section below the price noting that tires, tubes, spare tire, bumpers, and safety glass were all optional - mandatory options. That might add over a hundred dollars to the advertised price of the car. The price looks good on paper and attracts the attention of those who might buy a car. All the details will be explained when the would-be buyer is in the showroom admiring that "low-priced" brand new car.
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Canadian and U.S. differences.
