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Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?
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56D500boy
Posted 2016-11-26 8:11 PM (#527235)
Subject: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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I did a search but didn't find anything related to a 56 or a 55 or 57 even. My clock is not working. I presume that it should be powered on all the time. I haven't checked for 12V input which I will tomorrow. Assuming that power *IS* there what are the next things I need to check?

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DepsilonD
Posted 2016-11-28 11:52 AM (#527365 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: Re: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Many have the clocks converted to a quartz mechanism.
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elimontfort
Posted 2016-11-28 11:54 AM (#527367 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?


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More than likely it is just dirty. I had a 66 galaxie with a clock in it and I took it out cleaned it and it worked. Also there are numerous vendors that restore them and do quartz conversions on them also.
http://www.clockwks.com/Servicex.html
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b5rt
Posted 2016-11-28 1:29 PM (#527381 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: Re: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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The guy that restored mine said he heats them at a low temperature to soften any oil that's dried up. Maybe use a hair drier or low temp heat gun but definitely do at your own risk.
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57chizler
Posted 2016-11-28 3:20 PM (#527393 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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The clocks have a set of points like in the distributor that trigger the rewind motor every few minutes, they are the usual cause failures....simply cleaning the points often gets them running but they'll probably fail again.

Quartz conversion is the way to go.
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60 dart
Posted 2016-11-28 5:44 PM (#527417 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: Re: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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after removing the clock to work on it , i take a tooth pick and dab a light machine oil on all the friction points of all the gears , then i work the points til clean
with a points file . unless it's totally corroded , it'll run . sometimes you might have to give the spring gear a little help to get it tickin and of course it has to be
powered up by either battery or charger of correct voltage . actually it's real simple to get these old clocks working ,,,,,,,,,, if they are not total junk ---------------------------------later
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Beltran
Posted 2016-11-28 7:53 PM (#527431 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: Re: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Careful you use a fuse on the back! If it gets stuck then it will drain your battery if it doesn't set your wiring on fire first!.. speaking from experience.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-11 7:01 PM (#548182 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Now that I have a generator that generates, I am moving towards installation of my updated stock dash radio. The necessitates getting at a few things that will be buried by the radio. This includes the clock. It has never worked but I have never actually investigated it in detail until today.

It was receiving 12V to the one side of the glass fuse and the glass fuse has a resistance (therefore I assume it is working). However, there seems to be a fusable link on the back of the clock that has blown. Am I seeing things or what?

I tried to find a Part Number on the clock but the only thing that is there is "The Geo. W. Borg Corp. Chicago, USA" and an ink stamp that says "KKH". I can't find the PN in the Mopar parts pdf that I use but my 56 Parts hard copy manual says the D63 clock package was 1648 595.

Any comments welcomed (I did re-read the previous hints and will open the clock up, as needed).



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-11 7:06 PM




(56DodgeCustomRoyalDashClockFront.jpg)



(56DodgeCustomRoyalDashClockRearShowingGlassFuseAndBrokenLink.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeCustomRoyalDashClockFront.jpg (83KB - 5 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCustomRoyalDashClockRearShowingGlassFuseAndBrokenLink.jpg (81KB - 7 downloads)
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-11 9:07 PM (#548186 - in reply to #548182)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Okay, I loosened the crimps that hold the chrome bezel to the body of the clock but of course the adjustment knob needs to come off to pull the bezel. What is the trick to that? PULL or SCREW (off)?



On the upside I got my cowl lever reinstalled. Not easily.
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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-12 3:01 PM (#548223 - in reply to #548186)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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The knob unscrews, but it may be pretty tight. You can try holding the stem with pliers or tiny visegrips if you have them. It's easy to damage the stem that way too.

That said, I believe you should be able to remove the can from the back by removing all screws and nuts on the back and without having to remove the stem. I've done it on other Borg clocks.

I've been able to get many clocks back in service just from a good cleaning and lube. Quick method? Spray down with WD40 and see if that gets it running.

This web page isn't too bad. It's a different clock, but most of it still applies:

http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/restoration/restoration-tips/putting_t...

Edited by Greg P. 2017-09-12 3:26 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-12 7:16 PM (#548244 - in reply to #548223)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Greg P. - 2017-09-12 3:01 PM
The knob unscrews, but it may be pretty tight. You can try holding the stem with pliers or tiny visegrips if you have them. It's easy to damage the stem that way too.
That said, I believe you should be able to remove the can from the back by removing all screws and nuts on the back and without having to remove the stem. I've done it on other Borg clocks.


I soaked the end of the stem in PB Blaster for a couple of hours and then using needle nose vice-grips, I held the stem while I used some normal pliers to start the knob (normal lefty loosey). Came off a dream.

With the Bezel and "glass" (plastic) off, I investigated the inerds after removing the two small screws on the back and the nut that holds the fuse holder and spade connector. I am pretty sure that little "fuseable" link is actually just a ground strap from the clock body to the case (and then from the case to the car via the attachment screws).

I tried to get the clock to go using my battery charger (initially set to 6V (on purpose)) and then 12V. There was some sparks at the connection and points and some noise but no actually tick tocking. I did spin the little wheel that moves things back and forth (and creates the ticking noise) by hand and the mechanism seemed free enough. But this is over my can-of-worms limit so I put it all back together until I can find somebody who really know what's what.

Some photos from today:





(56DodgeCustomRoyalClockWithBezelOff.jpg)



(56DodgeCustomRoyalClockWithClockOutOfCase.jpg)



(56DodgeCustomRoyalClockWithClockOutOfCaseCloseUpShowingPoints.jpg)



Attachments
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Attachments 56DodgeCustomRoyalClockWithBezelOff.jpg (109KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCustomRoyalClockWithClockOutOfCase.jpg (97KB - 3 downloads)
Attachments 56DodgeCustomRoyalClockWithClockOutOfCaseCloseUpShowingPoints.jpg (120KB - 3 downloads)
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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-13 9:32 AM (#548273 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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If you got the click and the spark at the contact points when you applied power, that is a good sign that solenoid is working. It looks like it was able to wind the mainspring as the contacts are now apart. The contact points look a little scarred but not terrible.

If it was my clock, here's what I would do: Spray down the movement liberally with WD40. Let it soak in and do it again. See if that will get it running. On about half the Borg clocks I have messed with, this will get them running. If it works, I would recommend flushing out the WD40 with some good electronic cleaner and then "properly" oiling the movement. WD40 isn't the best long-term lubricant, but in my experience, it's great way to see if your clock is just dirty or if it has bigger problems.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-13 11:45 AM (#548281 - in reply to #548273)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Greg P. - 2017-09-13 9:32 AM If you got the click and the spark at the contact points when you applied power, that is a good sign that solenoid is working. It looks like it was able to wind the mainspring as the contacts are now apart. The contact points look a little scarred but not terrible.

If it was my clock, here's what I would do: Spray down the movement liberally with WD40.


The reason the point are apart is I inadvertently moved something that opens them. Oops. Hope that isn't fatal.

I will give WD40 a try.

Thanks.

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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-13 9:50 PM (#548318 - in reply to #548281)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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56D500boy - 2017-09-13 11:45 AM

Greg P. - 2017-09-13 9:32 AM If you got the click and the spark at the contact points when you applied power, that is a good sign that solenoid is working. It looks like it was able to wind the mainspring as the contacts are now apart. The contact points look a little scarred but not terrible.

If it was my clock, here's what I would do: Spray down the movement liberally with WD40.


The reason the point are apart is I inadvertently moved something that opens them. Oops. Hope that isn't fatal.

I will give WD40 a try.

Thanks.

:)


Probably not fatal
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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-14 10:43 AM (#548358 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Seriously, the thing you moved is probably the wheel that winds the mainspring, so no harm no foul. When working on these clocks, that's exactly how I wind them to test them without 12V power.

When operating correctly... that wheel is wound when the solenoid energizes, which also forces the contacts to open. As the spring winds down, the contacts close, energizing the solenoid and rewinding the spring. The cycle repeats itself approximately every 3 minutes.

Assuming the spring is wound, the clock should run, but it the movement may be be gummed up - it doesn't take much to keep it from running. Cleaning and lubricating the movement may work. The WD40 trick is the quick way to see if it will work.

Use caution trying to spin the balance wheel (the thing that makes the tic tock). It has a pretty delicate hairspring in it and can be damaged if you overdo it. A better way to do it is to rotate the whole clock back and forth in your hand to try to get it to spin - after you've cleaned and lubed it - or did the WD40 soak.

Edited by Greg P. 2017-09-14 10:46 AM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-14 3:55 PM (#548387 - in reply to #548358)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Greg: Thanks for hanging in there with words of encouragement for me.

I contacted Clockworks

http://www.clockwks.com/The_Clock_Worx.html

I sent them the photos that I have posted here and they replied:

"We received your photos and description of the work done. We service this
type of Borg movement on a regular basis.

Your original clock movement can be serviced for the flat rate of $79.95
plus return shipping. This includes disassembly of the movement, replacement
of any worn or distorted parts, oiling and calibration. We only ask that the
clock be complete, fully assembled and the movement serviceable. Regular
turnaround time is usually around 1 to 2 weeks and the warranty is 1 year."

When I asked about a converstion to quartz (my car is never going to be a concours car so who cares), the answer was:

"We do not offer a quartz conversion on this clock."

Hmm.... then I went to eBay looking for a 56 Dodge clock delete bezel (which I had seen there last week) but there was only 57 and 58 delete panels.

So I guess I have to try the WD40 trick for sure.

Sure wish I knew what I was doing.

/Dave F

Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-14 3:58 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-14 5:02 PM (#548395 - in reply to #548387)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Well FK me.

I took the clock apart again so I could spray down the inside with WD40. I did that and sprayed it and, without me doing *ANYTHING* else, it just started working on its own. (I had inadvertently manually rewound it yesterday, it just started ticking. I couldn't believe it). Wow. I held it in my hand and watched it as it ticked past 2 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes...all the while watching the point gap getting smaller and smaller. I think about the 7 or 8 minute of ticking mark, the points made contact. Since it wasn't powered, I just left it. It kept ticking away for another 2 or 3 minutes until I manually rewound it again.

Now to fix that ground strap and test it electrically.

Thanks for all the hints guys (and especially you Greg P).

Yippee!

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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-14 7:01 PM (#548405 - in reply to #548395)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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56D500boy - 2017-09-14 5:02 PM Since it wasn't powered, I just left it. It kept ticking away for another 2 or 3 minutes until I manually rewound it again. Now to fix that ground strap and test it electrically.
Yippee!

:)


I let it go again. Seems to go about 8 or 9 minutes on a winding but only about 3 minutes until the points close again.

I tried applying 12V to the + post (with the negative lead attached to the frame of the clock) and, with the points closed. Nothing. Merde.

I guess I have to send it into Clockwerks for rehab afterall



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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-14 9:26 PM (#548414 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Don't give up yet.

When the points closed, nothing happened at all?

If so, it's basic electrical troubleshooting... much easier than repairing a mechanical clock movement. It's a simple series circuit: source, switch and load.

With a voltmeter or test lamp, do you have 12V across the open points? I'd guess not, but if you do, you may just need to clean up the points.

If not, you just have to find the open in the circuit. It's either a broken or disconnected wire, or an open in the solenoid coil. Unfortunately, a burned up section in the coil is a somewhat common failure.

FYI, the theory behind this failure mode is when a car sits in storage and the car battery slowly discharges over time. at some point battery voltage drops to the level where the solenoid wont actuate, and the contact points remain closed, causing a continuous current through the coil (which it isn't designed for). The current isn't high enough to blow the fuse, but it's enough to burn up a section of the fine coil wire. To prevent that from happening, I always pull the clock fuse when my car goes in to winter hibernation.

If you are ambitious, you can rewind the solenoid coil by hand.

Or you can send it off and pay the 80 bucks.


Edited by Greg P. 2017-09-14 9:27 PM
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-15 1:43 AM (#548431 - in reply to #548414)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Greg P. - 2017-09-14 9:26 PM Don't give up yet.
When the points closed, nothing happened at all?


I gave it one more try. With the points just closed, I applied 12V to the + post on the back of the clock. There was some buzzing (like something was trying to move) and a bit of smoke/ozone haze. But no full rewinding of the system

Me thinks it is time for the professionals.



Edited by 56D500boy 2017-09-15 1:44 AM
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Greg P.
Posted 2017-09-16 7:08 PM (#548520 - in reply to #527235)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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It may be the best idea to send it off to the experts. They will probably do a really nice job.

But before you send it away... try one more thing. Clean up the contact points. You can use a scotchbrite pad or a little emery board. It's hard for me to tell exactly what the problem is, but it "could" be dirty contacts.

If that doesn't fix it, it's more likely an internal solenoid problem. While it's possible to rewind the coil yourself, for 80 bucks, your probably better off letting the pros do it.
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56D500boy
Posted 2017-09-17 12:17 AM (#548533 - in reply to #548520)
Subject: RE: Hints for getting a clock in a 56 CR working again?



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Greg P. - 2017-09-16 7:08 PM It may be the best idea to send it off to the experts. They will probably do a really nice job.
But before you send it away... try one more thing. Clean up the contact points. You can use a scotchbrite pad or a little emery board. It's hard for me to tell exactly what the problem is, but it "could" be dirty contacts.
If that doesn't fix it, it's more likely an internal solenoid problem. While it's possible to rewind the coil yourself, for 80 bucks, your probably better off letting the pros do it.


Shipped it off Friday. I had tried cleaning the points with a) a points file and b) some 400 grit wet/dry (dry). The contacts made contact, the issue was with the re-wind solenoid. It moved enough to open the points but not a full rewind's worth of rewind.

(I think - there was a lot of buzzying but not much action).

Best left to the pros.

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