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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
 
Location: Central Alberta | Last year I had the generator on our 37000 mile 1960 Saratoga rebuilt, because it made noises, figured I better have it done before it stops working. I brought in the regulator as well so they could test them together. I installed them in fall, now this spring I`ve driven the car just over 550 miles. Last time I came home and turned the car off. The next day I wanted to park it in the garage and no power when I turned the key. I opened the hood and saw wires melted together and insulation burnt off. The red wire from the generator to the regulator, the black wire from the regulator and red going towards and through the firewall.
I`m no electrician, anybody have an idea what might have happened? The car worked well for the 550 miles, why all of a sudden this malfunction?
Would it have happened while I was driving it, maybe to much current at hard acceleration or would the car have stopped running right there?
Could it have happened overnight after I turned the car off?
What could be the problem?
Thanks for the help, Marty
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Expert
Posts: 1740
 
Location: Alaska | I would say it is pretty obvious, your cutout relay in the regulator failed to open when you shut off the engine. Not good, it most likely fried your generator and regulator besides running your battery dead. Sorry for the bad news, it happened to me on a 62 skylark I have and I caught it before the battery was dead but it still fried my gen.®. What happens is the gen. tries to motor and draws high amperage.
Edited by 58coupe 2016-06-01 9:46 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7807
 
Location: Williams California | 58coupe - 2016-06-01 6:44 PM
I would say it is pretty obvious, your cutout relay in the regulator failed to open when you shut off the engine. Not good, it most likely fried your generator and regulator besides running your battery dead. Sorry for the bad news, it happened to me on a 62 skylark I have and I caught it before the battery was dead but it still fried my gen.®. What happens is the gen. tries to motor and draws high amperage.
I'll place my bet on this scenario also. Generally is the cutout relay fails, the Amp light will glow after you've turned the ignition key to off.
---John |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Yep, in my auto sparky experience, thats exactly whats happened
Now here comes the bad news, its not just the genny and the reg or the wires from the genny to the reg, its the full engine
harness and dash harnesses that have melted, where you can see and where you cant (under tape ect)
This is the exact thing that had happened to my 60 dodge at some time in its life, so, what do you have to do?
Apart from the obvious, new/rebuilt genny and a new reg, you need to rewire/ repair the wiring for the front 1/2 of the car.
I will not say its easy, but its not that hard either if you take your time, are methodical, and patient (being a little bit physically flexible helps too)
I will make up a new thread with all the pictures I took when I wired the dodge so you can see.
I had my entire dash out, this is not necessary but does make it easier. It was out as part of my build.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 471
Location: Central Alberta | Thanks ya'll for the explanation, helped me understand what happened!
I'll follow that thread of yours, ttotired and will do the rewiring.
1960 was the last year for these generators, maybe I should switch to an alternator now, if they are a better system?
Thanks, Marty
Edited by NorthernFins 2016-06-04 12:38 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Unlike a 60 Dodge, a 60 Saratoga has a fuseblock so it is easy to think you will be protected from this sort of thing. In your case and as pointed out, the battery remained connected to the the generator armature and melted the harness all the way to and back from the ammeter in the dash. But, as Mick and I have mentioned in other threads, the only REAL protection is to install fusible links.
Chrysler started using them in 65. Copy what they used! I can give you the details if you want.
I use them on all my own cars!
First thing you must do is find and repair the cause. I always have 1960 Chrysler main wiring harnesses in stock if you need one.
Greg
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Expert
Posts: 1530
Location: ZH, Switzerland | Both my FLK cars (1956 Chry NY, the Beast and 1960 Chry 300 F, the Letter) have a mechanical voltage/current regulator and a generator installed (from the factory). In my running car (the Beast) I'm using a clamp with a disconnector at the negative post of the battery. This would prevent melted or burned wires overnight - and decharging of the battery. In my opinion the 1956 service manual, chapter 8 describes the function, the service procedure and adjustments of the voltage regulator very good. IMHO in both cars (1956 and 1960) there is basically the same voltage regulator. It might be that the setting is slightly different. Good luck for your restoration Dieter |
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Expert
Posts: 3887
Location: Northen Virginia | Gosh what a mess, but very lucky....
A more powerful battery will the set the whole electrical system on fire..
I didn't even know about this flaw on the Gen cars, however just in case I have a battery ground disconnect on my car, which is a factory alternator setup.
Denis |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Disconnecting the battery (however you do it) is not a bad idea, but will not save this from happening as it can happen anytime the engine is off and it happens straight after driving and will take no time to happen, just long enough for you to turn your back and not notice the smoke
Its not just generator cars that this happens to, but alternator cars as well with diodes shorting out (or falling off) causing the same thing
This is not a maintenance issue, its a well known design flaw
Obviously, its up to the individual vehicle owner to decide whether they want to do this, I am over here in Perth Australia, I am not selling anything here, I am advising on how to protect your car from burning.
AS Greg has said, he has or can remake a new harness for you, the details, I will leave to him 
The fuse in the main power feed is what they should put as the meaning of an ounce of cure is better than a ton of pain
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Expert
Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | I would sSwitch to an alternator. Very simple wiring. Depending upon which alt. you choose[I went with the 2 wire GM] you an find them usually in stock anywhere. Wiring diagrams on-line. You can build or buy a universal bracket kit that takes a few minutes and I used the same belt and use dash light.
You can always go back to the stock set up. Infact, IF you wanted to go between the 2 systems for shows, once you've installed the alt. you can change back in 15 minutes if your old wiring is left intact.
I ran a gen for the first 8 years I owned my car and had problems with it or the regulator several times during that time. Replaced the reg. twice and rebuilt the gen. once. One time it died shortly after I started my 6+ hr drive to upstate N.Y. Fortunately, there is so little draw with the old cars that I ran off the battery all the way and for the whole week I was up there. I had my boat with me, so before I came back down, I put my boat battery in my car.
I guess you can find a regulator in stock[?] but unless you carry a spare generator or die next to a RARE generator repair shop on a Tuesday morning, you might be setting for days.
Contrary to rumors, a GM alternator will not hurt you car and it is not like it is welded to it. They are easier to find and less expensive. |
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Expert
Posts: 2289
Location: Eastern Iowa | I have been running an alternator on my F since the car was restored back in '85.
This only because I did not have a generator or the correct manifold to mount it on.
No problems so far. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13049
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Remember that MoPar did install a 60 amp fuse for the alternators in '62 for to prevent eventual electrical disasters (malfunction of one or more diods).
I have just installed fusible link wires according to Gregs instructions - better safe than sorry. Thanks' for all your help Greg! |
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Expert
Posts: 1737
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | And I can attest that Greg's wiring harnesses are very nice! |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Sven, you are welcome and thanks, Brad.
Greg
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Engine wires burnt, melted on 1960 Saratoga
