59 Togamaster - 2010-03-22 7:24 AM

John, What about the Norsmen? That went down with the Andria Doria? The car with no A pillar? Did you work on that one or was it a Ghia design?
Thanks.

wizard - 2010-03-22 8:00 AM

This is like crossfire John, but I have a question; Do you know anything about who the designers where that worked on the Chrysler 1960 model? Since I own a '60 Saratoga, I'm interested to know more about the 60 Chrysler.

59 Togamaster - 2010-03-22 4:24 AM

John, What about the Norsmen? That went down with the Andria Doria? The car with no A pillar? Did you work on that one or was it a Ghia design?
Thanks.

john samsen - 2010-03-22 10:46 PM
Also, Jeff Godshall is still around, and may be reached at (248) 576 2047. Jeff is the historian for Mopar design and has written articles in several automotive magazines.

d500neil - 2010-03-22 8:28 PM

John, please tell us about how the factory went about destroying and discarding the full size mock ups
and their promotional artwork, etc. .

I realize that there must have been just a tremendous amount of surplus artwork which was eliminated.

john samsen - 2010-03-24 5:12 AM

Concept cars were destroyed, shipped to other countries, or sometimes left to rust in some lot. A number of these have turned up, and been restored.

Few people thought these things would be worth much. We had no idea there would be fans of these cars collecting them decades later. In 1950, a friend of my father had a Deusenberg model J phaeton, perfectly restored. He said it was worth about $7000. I passed up buying a 1937 Cord supercharged convert in very good condition. A friend of mine picked up a 1913 Model T roadster in good running condition for $55, and sold it a couple years later for $175.

Ex-finlover - 2010-03-23 10:23 PM

With all this design talk - thought you folks would enjoy seeing a 1956 Chrysler interior proposal featuring swivel seats.
This was done by Don Butler - a self-taught designer who first landed a job with Hudson after WWII.
His previous work experience was on the family farm and 11 years cutting fabric in a trouser factory.

john samsen - 2010-03-24 10:33 AM

Ever think about commercial names, how strange some of them are? Americans didn't want a monarchy, but think of all the products that use such names-
Burger King, Dairy Queen, Imperial cars, Royal Lancers, Mercury Monarch, Crown Victoria, etc. By the way, Valiant came from Exner's favorite comic strip, "Prince Valiant".

Furies were nasty mythical beings- what a strange name for cars! Then what in the world is a "Sport Fury"? Like a Sport Demon, or Sport Vampire!

The Plymouth division execs intended to name our fastback Valiant the "Panda". When we designers hooted at them, they challenged us to come up with a better name. A name from my list was chosen- "Barracuda".

Today, they make up names that don't relate to anything- "Camry", "Prius", "Lexus", etc. Maybe that is better.

Boris56 - 2010-03-25 7:41 AM



"Fury" is one of the best-ever car names, in my opinion. It should have been left as the sporty model, though, and not applied to an entire line of cars.

1960DesotoAdventurer - 2010-03-14 3:01 PM

John Samsen-[The 1960 Valiant is pure Exner. His design was used on the Karmann/Ghia VW. Most of us designers were against using "toilet seat" dummy spares and Virgil Jr. says he tried to talk Ex out of that cliche' on cars that the two Exners collaborated on, like the reincarnated Stutz, but failed. ]


Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions and give us a greater insight into what was going on in the design dept. during the Forward Look era.
Its incredible to actually be able to talk with someone that was involved with these great cars!

Unfortunately,I have to agree with you and Virgil Exner Jr. the "classic elements" like the toilet seat look out of place and awkward on these futuristic cars. To qoute Will Darnell,I guess Virgil Jr. should have "talked harder".

I have to confess I have never liked the 1960 Valiant and actually think its quite ugly to be honest. It seems mis-shapen and clunky looking,like it was left out on a hot day and melted in the sun
I never understood how that car could have sold when it was up against the beautiful full sized finned Plymouths. I know they were trying to compete with the Falcon and the Comet,but the comet was a much more attractive car.
Besides,you could have the slant 6 in a belveder in 1960 and gotten economy and style,so what was the need for the valiant?

I would be interested to know what you and the other designers thought about the Valiant at the time......am I the only one who thinks its ugly? it didnt even seem to be a Chrylser product the way it looked.

:laugh:

OldiesNut - 2010-03-27 7:13 PM

Mr . Samsen, If it's not too irritating to have more praise heaped on you, maybe the fact that it's coming from a College kid helps. I never thought I'd get such a personal look into the history of these gorgeous cars from such a reliable source in a million years. The sketches and concept artwork you've shared have been truly stunning, you're stories have held me in rapt attention. Also, as a teenage retro-nut It feels wonderful to hear this stuff from a man who lived it, letting me see through a window back to a more classy, optomistic time. My Parents are too young for it and their parents are too old for it. I realize how corny it is to say that it must have been like "Mad Men" at your office in those days, but you fellas affected automobiles that affected a decade itself.
Now that I've bent your ear in two, I'll shove a question into it:
I've noticed that the fins on the '59 and '60 Plymouths and Dodges seemed to become thinner and less integrated to the rear deck than their predecessors, and by '61 they were gone. Are you aware what prompted shaving 'em off the Plyms and Dodges while letting the Desotos, Chryslers and Imperials keep 'em another year?
Many thanks, Sir.

Doctor DeSoto - 2010-03-28 4:13 PM

This is an Exner creation ????

I have seen better looking kit cars.

Ever notice how the employees at record stores play the weirdest "music" ? When asked
about it, they will tell you they are so tired of "ordinary" and anything to bring in variety is
a good thing. I suspect this is how car designers have to look at it too, especially when
pressure comes down from above to always be coming up with something new.

I wonder if the FL were appreciated as a zenith moment in automotive design at the time,
or they were just another step in the ladder like all that came before or after ? I cannot get
my head around that, but looking at what came after fins, there must have been some
rationalization to it.

B/G 61 - 2010-03-06 4:11 PM

I'll dive in like many will with a question about a specific car - the '61 Dodge . . . Is it true the final design was picked out of the trash on a crumpled piece of paper ??? ANYTHING you want to say about the '61 Dodge and its design I'm ALL EARS (eyes )

Chrycoman - 2010-03-28 7:19 PM

The first five are from July, 1959, with the first two showing a model with a front end taken from John's 1957 DeSoto design.