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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
 
Location: STL, MO | I will be picking up my 1st fl car next week and hopefully by summer setting my 392 in it. It's currently a 318/2spd and from what I've gathered it should pretty much drop in, however this isn't my first trip to the mopar engine swap rodeo and any experienced tips would be appreciated, The car is a 58 suburban 2dr and after 30yrs of 340's-440's in a wide variety of unibodys it's neat to have something different, like a frame, in something besides a truck, thanks, Steve |
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Expert
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Location: N.W. Fla. | There's a thread, last updated in '07, on putting a 331 in a 56-7 Plym. I put a 331 in a '60. You'll need a center sump if your isn't allready. If you want a spin on oil filter get the OEM angle one from Hot Heads. On the 56-7 the OEM tranny cooler didn't fit in, it did on my '60. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: SE Arizona | Pretty much a bolt in as stated. You do need the 57-8 Hemi (or 354 Spitfire) center sump pan and pickup. Tall aftermarket valve covers my an issue with the master cylinder. A front sway bar helps a lot with the extra weight. Exhaust can be a challenge if your going to run headers. Manual steering cars can probably use the 4 bolt flange manifolds and definately the 55/56 "rams horn" style. With power steering you may be limited to the 57-8 stock units which can be fairly restrictive.
My 354/57 Plymouth build is shown over at:
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?action=view&journalid=3...
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltjeyXTzkzw
Edited by Mike P 2009-03-20 7:32 AM
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Account Suspended
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Mike knows his stuff on doing this (and many other things). I would trust what he has to say without question. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 636
| The 58 Suburban should already have the front sway bars.
Sparky |
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Location: DFW, TX | sparky7 - 2009-03-20 11:02 AM
The 58 Suburban should already have the front sway bars.
Sparky
Really? My '57 didn't.
Let's see some pictures of the '58 wagon! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | I put a 392 in 57 ply back in early 60's. it sat right in there nicely. no p/s or p/b. but had to have heater core cut in half to have room for dist. changing points was a real challenge. used a 3spd overdrive. that 392 would split that tranny end to end. Also it was too heavy and keeping it under control hard cornering was a challenge. back end of car too lite and will spin out on you. that was the downfall of that car. I loved going out looking for chev's. also pay attention to driveline angles. If you don't it will vibrate. I then put that eng in a 58 dodge with 727. Much nicer handling car. Good luck Jerry |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | I joined this site a few mo. ago and was impressed on the depth of some of the tech answers, thanx for the replys. My 392 was bought of ebay a few years back as a complete take out from a 58 NYer, I was told it ran when pulled. I feel when you buy an old motor you need the block, heads and crank to be good the rest you can work with, 8 sleeves, a different crank and 2 heads later the machine work is done and I am ready to start assembling the engine I hope this wagon gives me break, my low buck plans have been somewhat derailed with this engine's issues. someone has swapped the bellows style booster and single cyl for a modern drum w/a dual line set-up. It is awfully close to poly's rkr cvr, I'll probably have to swap to a smaller drum ( k-car maybe) to clear the tin covers much less a set of Donovans. Somewhere along the way I heard all the 57-58 mopars were the same dimensionally from the firewall fwd, this isn't true? I was thinking of putting a 518 I have behind the 392 to give it some legs, has anyone tried one of these? I have been wanting to build something that can cruise 70-75 for a few hrs with out beating me up. I have the right oil pan and the hot heads oil filter adapter and other HH stuff will be picked up at the Hot Rod reunion in June. I might drive the car there w/polypower. Mike that is one neat car the dash and hood are cool, I have been wondering if my HH dual plane w/750dp would clear and that is a great alternative, nice utiline also. 57 burb the car can be seen @ country classics staunton scroll thru his inventory and it's there and no I didn't pay nearly that much. Sorry if this was longwinded I have been doing a Dodge A-990 clone for awhile and it's slow going, I'll be driving this Plymouth in a week and I am excited about it. Thanks again Steve |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: SE Arizona | Depending on the amount of room, you might look into using the booster from a 75-78 Big Block Dodge pickup. It has quite a bit smaller diameter than many of the other boosters and will provide enough boost for the bigger brakes.
Somewhere in the early 60's (61 maybe) Chrysler used a a bracket setup that used a regular diaphram booster and raised the booster/MC setup that would clear the valve covers which may be another option..
Edited by Mike P 2009-03-21 9:16 PM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Hayward, Calif | Steve. When I did my 57 yrs ago had to use the original off set air cleaner hanging over the valve cover because of minimal hood clearance issues. That 57 was my first major eng swap and learned a lot of do's and don't 's. That was the most amazing eng I ever owned. Just looking at it reeks of brute power. You will love the OOO's and AHHH's you will get. Jerry |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | There is a mopar only junkyard not far from here I'll look for that bracket,I forgot about those small truck boosters, the HH intake is about an inch taller than the orig and the oe aircleaner of course won't fit the 4150 style carb it will have to be modified, I never thought about the Hemi being that much taller than the poly. I do think it's probably the best engine Chrysler ever built and the only one where cost didn't overule engineering. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | Is the '57 Plym that much shorter than the '56 Plym? I could easily fit a blower on top of my motor and have only the air scoop stick out of the hood.
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Expert
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Location: N.W. Fla. | Thee was a guy @ a show Sat. with a long tail '53 331 in a '57 Plym. It's a low deck, but seemed to fit in well. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: STL, MO | Actually Powerflite it was your car that kind of got me rolling on this whole thing, I had been looking at cars for the old Hemi and was looking at 33-34 plymouths but they are so high, I always have liked the 56's look, started lookin locally and on the computer, found one locally, read some of your posts, got beat out on the 56 but the seller had the 58 also and here I am. Picking the car up this week. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: SE Arizona | I'm running a pretty tall intake ( with a very short but long air cleaner). My interference problem comes at the front of the hood as it starts to slope down. You'll note the the scoop is really pretty short but it does provice the extra clearance I needed.
The 392 being a tall deck is a bit taller than the 354 to begin and the aftermarket intake adds some height too but I suspect with a drop base air cleaner it would probably clear the stock hood.
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | That's funny Handygun. Apparently you think like me - "Have motor, what car should it go into?". That is how I ended up where I am too.  It should be a great project.
Edited by Powerflite 2009-03-24 2:26 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9670
Location: So. Cal | Mike, are you using the original poly motor mounts without modification? You definitely have less room above the motor than I do, but it is still enough to make it work well. I think the AFB is a little shorter than your 2bbl carbs.
I really like your hood scoop. Classy looking and not too out of place. Is that tri-power home-made from a cast iron poly 2bbl manifold? If so, are the additional plates brazed or welded on? I though about doing the same thing with the Windsor manifold I have kicking around. How well does it work? (oops just re-read your post and realized that it is aftermarket) Who made that manifold? I have not seen one like it.
Edited by Powerflite 2009-03-24 2:44 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Neat car, good luck with your swap bud! The Dodge and Plymouth cars are 4" shorter than the "big body" Chrysler and DeSotos - and it is ALL in front of the doors - so Hemi swaps are a little tougher but not impossible by any stretch.
Here are some pictures of his wagon: http://www.countryclassiccars.com/spcars_109.htm
Edited by 57burb 2009-03-24 7:19 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 585
Location: SE Arizona | Powerflite, the 392 and aftermarket intake I ws refering to are the ones handygun is going to be using. YOu were correct my intake is a modified 2BBL that was likely done with a "U build it" kit back in the late 50-60s. The welding is some of the most beautiful brazing I've seen (wish I could take credit for it LOL).
The modification retain the dual plane function and the long runners are great for low and mid range torque. The outboard carbs really wake it up when they are opened up. I'm running a large base center and 2 small base outboard Rochester carbs, and it manages 20MPG at 75 MPH.
I am using the stock poly mounts and 392 oil pan.
I have a factory dual quad intake (331-392) around here and it is almost flat as opposed to the "Hi Rise" design of the tri-power. It would allow the use of a stock hood......stock hood or Tri-Power.....in my case the Trips won out.
Edited by Mike P 2009-03-24 7:32 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 461
Location: Brooklyn NY | I like that wagon...have one m'self, good luck with the engine swap, it'll be real KOOL when done. If that 392 is putting out any real HP, I would go with a top tank alluminum radiator to keep temps under control in the summer, paint the tanks Radiator black and most people won't even notice you're using an alluminum radiator....Ralph from Brooklyn |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: STL, MO | Does anyone know if the 4bolt 300 manifold will fit with P/S? |
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Expert
Posts: 1295
Location: Nasco , SWEDEN | Mike P - 2009-03-24 1:19 PM
I'm running a pretty tall intake ( with a very short but long air cleaner). My interference problem comes at the front of the hood as it starts to slope down. You'll note the the scoop is really pretty short but it does provice the extra clearance I needed.
The 392 being a tall deck is a bit taller than the 354 to begin and the aftermarket intake adds some height too but I suspect with a drop base air cleaner it would probably clear the stock hood.
MIKE, you have done a wonderful job on that car, thank´s for sharing...............
Edited by mogge65 2010-12-15 6:29 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | We swapped a 392 into my 57 dodge without any heater core modifications, it was tight but it fit. We will see if the AC box clears a 392 in a 58 plymouth though! Thats a long way out however. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: STL, MO | Mine clears with about a 1/2" clearence from the rear most dist wire boot. I went through my milk crate full of clutch fans and found one that is 2.6 tall, that combined with my 3 row rad gives me a inch clearence in the front, tight fit like the gal said. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Here is a really before pic!
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | Where did you come up with that, Marc? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | I was just re-reading this post Good Stuff. I really miss Mile P. on here. He is very knowledgeable and helpfull. Met him at Tulsa and he stopped here at our house one time on the way to see his Mom. He has a shop at home where he builds some first rate driver cars and pick-ups. Nights and weekends. He and several other very capable members have gone on down the road. 
Handygun, I had forgotten you had threads in this. Very nice Suburban you have there. Is it a driver Hemi at this time? The first weekend of June, Rolla Mo. ( where my son now lives) is having a big Route 66 celebration with a car cruise and show. I thought maybe you and Herb ( and other FL folks) might make it and we could have a good FL representation. We will be driving the 56 Chrysler. ..........................MO |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | Steve, the car is almost done. Between the 65,58 and now the 63, putting a ceiling, runnin wire, hanging furnaces and lights in my new garage etc,etc and of course other things breaking along the way it has been slow but It should fire up this month and since everything else is new ie brakes, tranny, rearend, tires, there will be some shakedown items but Rolla in june is very doable |
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392 swap into 58 plymouth
