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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
   
Location: bishop, ca | No, there is no evidence that the factory built the Regals (or the 1957 D501 models) in dedicated batches, or runs,
of consecutive VIN's.
Back on Page 6 of this thread, there is a listing of the unique Regal trim pieces.
There is only one part number for the grille 'medallion': 1757 189 .
That P/N almost certainly pertains to the coral colored grille ornament, since only the Regals sported
a coral colored medallion.
But, whether, and how many, Regals got a black painted grille ornament----and/or whether the black
medallions shared the same P/N as the coral guys---- is subject to actual physical part-observations.
Edited by d500neil 2012-10-07 8:53 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Ok, I have one of the coral medallions, I will check the pn when I get home. The pn for the black medallion is 1863 728 (funny those pn's are so far apart) - so maybe those were the ones used on regular ol' Custom Royal and Royal Spring Specials. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Well, well, well... I checked my NOS red medallion and the pn is 1863 728 -
identical to the black medallion! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | So, neither one is apparently correct for a Regal Lancer, according to the factory records, for the R.L. .
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Location: The Mile High City | Very curious! I wonder what that "radiator grille moulding" is?
I have a "power steering" horn ring (with ornament) for the 1958 Dodge and the pn is 1829 586, but I can't tell any difference from those I have seen in Regal Lancer photos.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-10-08 11:01 PM
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Regular
Posts: 76
Location: B.C. Canada | Heres what my Collision Manual shows, re the 58' grill Emblems. Hope it clarifys things better! John.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 390
| Is the part number you've found cast into the back of the part or is it ink stamped?
If it's cast into the part, then I believe that part number is for the casting only. Every variation of the casting (black shield, coral shield) will have a separate part number.
Parts books show service part numbers. The only documents I've ever seen that show production part numbers are the body & chassis graphics books. The earliest graphics books I'm aware of are from 1960, and then they're only chassis books.
From what I've learned of these graphics books (what the Chebby guys call "Assembly Manuals"), there's a book for Body in White, another for Trim, another for Chassis and I also suspect, but have never seen, that there are additional books for the asembly of the engine, transmission, rear axle and other major sub-assemblies.
Anybody confirm my suspicions? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Kevin:
It is cast into the part itself, not stamped.
Thanks, John - that does help. For the Regal parts list, I was a bit confused about the number of radiator grille mouldings specified (1) - and though it might be a different part. It seems like it should be at least three - cap and two sides - if not more.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-10-09 2:14 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | So I also have a NOS Coronet SS grille emblem and it is pn 1863 729. From the information John provided, it looks like the red-and-black striped D emblem went with the Coronets and the Royals (LD1 & LD2) and the black shield went with the Custom Royals (LD3) and the red shield went with the Regals.
Which leaves the remaining "Base, Medallion - All Spring Special" pn 1863 742 - a bit of a mystery.
I think all that may have been the intent, but in practice they may have slapped those grille medallions on cars almost willy nilly. From what I have seen, the Coronet SS's got the black-and-red D emblem - but I have never seen a Royal with that emblem. Regals seem to be either black or red. |
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | And though grammatically correct, the use of the word "peculiar" in the PIB is very mid-century. We would generally say "particular," these days, lest we not imply that these medallions you are all focused on, are strange, odd, off-putting. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield County, CT | OK guys, here's the scoop on medallions. The 1757 189 was very early production, probably a carryover from the '57 model year where these were put on the rear quarters of station wagons. In the picture below is the back of one of these that is off my car built in late '57 (sorry for the picture quality but you can just make out the 175 and 9 under the grille bar on the bottom). You'll note that in the picture of the front that it is black and lacks the proper notches for grille mounting. Also pictured is the the later medallion 1863 729 which does have the notches on the sides to recess onto the grille bars. A much nicer look.
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Fairfield County, CT | I didn't notice before but the mounting pins are located very differently on these two medallions. They don't interchange. Fortunately I have another grille that I'm going to use on my car that's perfectly straight and had no medallion. My original grille was damaged at some point. I'll locate the new holes for the later medallion. I don't know who started this topic but it forced me look and answer a question I always had. Was the black medallion without notches a replacement? Now I know it's correct. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hooray, Joe! The answer man!  |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Joe Mac - 2012-10-11 4:40 AM
I didn't notice before but the mounting pins are located very differently on these two medallions. They don't interchange. Fortunately I have another grille that I'm going to use on my car that's perfectly straight and had no medallion. My original grille was damaged at some point. I'll locate the new holes for the later medallion. I don't know who started this topic but it forced me look and answer a question I always had. Was the black medallion without notches a replacement? Now I know it's correct.
Joe,
do you have the metal plate that goes behind the grill to attatch the two pins into, i may have a spare one if not, also my emblem is Black also,
Paul. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | According to the above Repair Manual:
.....the 1863 729 was ONLY to be installed in the Spring Special Coronets and Royals, but
NOT on the Custom Royals, which have medallion 1863 728 ????
Is this later 1863 729 (or, 1863 728) 'crest-emblem' produced in Coral and/or Black?
The medallion's reconfiguration, with its different mounting pins, means that the grille, itself, would have to be
changed, to accept the different pins' locations, on the Spring Specials?
The Repair Manual, above, reflects the installation of the older-original P/N : 1757 189 on the Regal Lancers (only).
According to the Repair Manual "729" would be that little black-and-red 'winged' grille emblem, and "728"
would be the full-on 'crest-guy'.
This ain't confusing????
-----JUST noticed, that Joe is actually holding-up P/N 1863 728 (!!)----which is 'clearly' intended for
installation on the CRL SPRING SPECIALS, only.
So, this clears 'that' up: notched-sided "728" on the S.-S.'s, only, and the flat-sided "189" on the REGALS, only.
Edited by d500neil 2012-10-12 9:45 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Rick Carter sent me these images of his Regal - with this story: There is very little rust and the car has all of its original parts including all emblems, hubcaps, and badges. It has only 112,280 original miles. There is one small crease dinged into the door on the passenger side. The bumpers are just OK and need to be re-chromed. It is cream with Copper insets. The car was purchased new in 1958 in Athens, Ga. The man who owned it had a service station in town and was very meticulouse about maintenance. He died in the early 70s and his wife (non-driver) kept the car in a carport until 1986. A friend of mine bought the car and put it under a shed, where it has been ever since. The car was cranked occasionally and finally left sitting for the last ten years. I am taking my time and going by the book before I crank the car but I am pretty sure I will not have any trouble getting it to run. I got it just because it is rare but I'm probably over my head on a proper restoration. The best attributes about the car is that I know its history, and that all of it is in its original state.
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Location: The Mile High City | More from Rick
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Veteran
Posts: 245
Location: Lewisville, TX. | Wow, great find! Add some more pics. Especially the interior. Oops, I started this reply but had to do something. When I came back and finished, I noticed there were more pics added. Sorry. Lol!
Edited by reed.bradzsavoytoy57 2012-11-05 4:09 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Rick FOUND this car's Broadcast Sheet up/behind the glove box, today!
Never give up hope on finding one, just because the car may be in rough condition.
This car was well optioned, but its most unusual feature may be that it has only a tinted/shaded windshield,
with the remainder of the glass being plain, and non-tinted.
Some earlier owner repainted the roof in white, maybe about the time when the OEM foam ("Accoustifoam") headliner
was replaced with its current vinyl headliner material.
Of all the Unobtanium materials in our cars, the Accoustifoam headliners are probably the rarest item(s).
They literally disintegrated from heat/cold/vibration/abuse/mistakes/age, right over the heads of the cars' occupants.
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-05 4:54 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | to me, that headliner looks like the genuine hardboard with the accoustifoam removed or otherwise scraped off. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I've never seen 'naked' Accoustifoam backing.
Whatever it is, it is sagging down, like a cloth material.
That rear speaker is probably a dealer add-on item; it's not coded for having one,
and, the rear seats might just be in Primo condition (or not), under those seat
covers....
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-05 5:49 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | This is a shot of Polara Paul's headliner, with the hardboard backing peeking through. Note the waffle pattern is very similar to Rick's Regal.
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Location: The Mile High City | Data Tag
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Member
Posts: 6
| It is the waffleboard. There were thick chunks of the accoustifoam under the back seat. The cloth insets in the seats are toast. The foam padding in all the seats crunches like a crouton. lol |
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Member
Posts: 6
| I can't thank you guys enough for the advice and information you gave me today. It's nice to know that tere are guys out there willing to share valuable information with a complete greenhorn like me just because you love the car! I'll do my best to bring the car back to it's glory days. It will be awesome to have your help along the way. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield County, CT | Another Regal Lancer surfaces! These pictures bring back memories of my car when I first got it. This one is actually more solid than mine, a great car to restore, very complete. This car has some of the items found on the early Regal Lancers; the lance and shield on the glove box door, and the chrome cap on the end of the windlace on the rear door pillar. These are not usually found on later cars. This car was built about one month into Regal production. Take lots of pictures. It will only be this original until you start the restoration and you'll be surprised how unique your car is. There are no two alike. I'd like to get a picture of the grille medallion to see if it has the flat edges. I have a theory that this medallion was disco'd when the the spring special trim package was in production and that at some point the Regals got the notched ones. Those are indeed what naked roof panels look like when the Acoustifoam turns to dust. The factory must have used a roller to apply the adhesive to make that pattern. I wouldn't worry too much about unobtanium Acoustifoam; it can be replicated. New foam sheets applied to the backer boards and sprayed with the correct color latex paint looks indistinguishable from the original. I've seen this done. BTW; what type of antenna did this car have? Fender mounts are not unusual in the early Regals. Is the carpet black loop pile? There is some discussion about what was original. I think mine was replaced so I can't be sure. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Its coded for a fender mount antenna.
Good to know that the accoustifoam appearance can be replicated; never seen a 'restored' headliner; only sheet-vinyl facsimiles.
Joe, do you have any leads on the headliner bows; are they (still) sold by MoPar Mel?
The carpeting was standard Dodge sheared plush cut-pile, not loop-pile.
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-06 1:27 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | I had a nice chat with Rick tonight and I understand Joe talked to him too. Nice fellow! I think he and his wife are really going to enjoy this car. Turns out Mrs. Carter was the driving force behind the acquisition of this very, very fine car. Hopefully, he will be a regular on the forwardlook.net  |
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Member
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| My wife Nickie is a VW collector. She has a 73 Karmann Ghia convertible and a 74 Beetle. She just sold her 71 Beetle to help pay for restoration of the 58 Regal Lancer. I am in the process of creating a trunk mat for the 58. i'll keep you posted. |
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Member
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| We took off the fuel tank today. It has a serious rust hole. new tank on order. |
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Location: The Mile High City | riclemenza - 2012-11-10 9:58 AM
My wife Nickie is a VW collector. She just sold her 71 Beetle to help pay for restoration of the 58 Regal Lancer.
Good choice!
Unfortunately, many junk yards puncture their gas tanks. There are plenty of good sources on this website for a used one. John Fowlie "Big M" and M'Lisa Fowlie "Deloverly" are a good bet. I think there is a manufacturer of reproduction tanks on eBay too. |
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Member
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| Ok Guys, I've been doing some homework. I am sculpting and molding a reproduction trunk mat to place back into the car.(58 Regal Lancer) It will require the time to set up the sculpture and the time to make a fiberglass mold from the sculpture. Then, I will take the fiberglass mold to NC to have it sprayed with a flexible black urethane rubberized coating. The urethane coating is much more expensive than I anticipated but there is no other alternative that I know of. I am probably going to do this whether or not anyone else wants a trunk mat. I will have well over $2000 of travel, time and materials in the first mat. If I leave the fiberglass mold with the coating place, they could make additional mats to be drop shipped for a rough estimate of $350 to $400 each. They may become cheaper if a large quantity of mats are made. These mats will look very much like the originals. Before I go off the deep end I would like to have some idea concerning the demand for the product. Let me know if you are definitely interested. Either post comments (pro or con) or send me an email. I can probably have the mold ready by the New Year. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1141
Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Hi Rick,
Yes put me down for a trunk mat, have you had chance to look around your car yet, just wondering if you can see any evidence of the copper/bronze color around the dash inserts, dont know if you have seen my thread but it looks like they may have been colored at one time?
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=36612&...
Paul. |
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Member
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| I went and looked and didn't see any paint on dash inserts. The metal dash panel was all painted copper and the knobs, gages, and dials are all chrome. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield County, CT | Rick,
So glad you took the trunk mat project on and have a plan to produce them. I definitely want one. I will speak to other owners to get more sold. Can I suggest that you post this project under Parts for Sale for more exposure? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield County, CT | Paul,
Rick also is tackling the rectangular seat button reproduction that you and I discussed some time back. He seemed to think that was a relatively easy task (no pressure, Rick). |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1141
Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Hi Joe,
you must have been reading my mind, i was just going to post about those seat trims, anyway i have found the bracket for the grill badge, pm me your address,
Paul
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Blackpool, United Kingdom. | Just out of curiosity i had a look at the badge on mine, and guess what different again? when i did my 58 with the spring trim on the badge was notched at the side to fit the grill bars, this one on the Regal is flat at the sides but it has a 2 bolt adapter plate on the back rivited to the badge with the original 3 pins? plus the bracket that goes behind the grill is a different shape?
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Regular
Posts: 72
Location: Fayetteville, NC | Add me to your list of those interested in your trunk mats. I would be interested in two trunk mats. I have both a regal and a convertible in need of truck mats.
Thanks
Harry in NC |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Thanks for those pics, Paul!
Your findings bear out my own research, and as I stated, up-above here:
So, this clears 'that' up: notched-sided "728" on the S.-S.'s, only, and the flat-sided "189" on the REGALS, only.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Rick, put me 'down' for one of your trunk mats, too!
There was only one style of (rubber-) trunk mat, in 1957-1958 (and probably in/for 1959, too), so your market for a
correct re-creation is large.
I presume that you do have a correct mat to copy-from....
What you could do, is contact Gary Goers, and sell HIM your mat design/protocols, with you receiving a Royalty on
each of their sales by him.
If he declines, there are other sources, like Steele, etcetcetc...
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-20 3:20 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...NOW.....the next question is: Did the Regal Lancer grille emblem, 1757 189, come in just Coral face-paint, or also in Black
face-painting?
The 1958 CRL trunk's script "DODGE" emblem is seen in both chromed potmetal, and in gold-anodized aluminum, applications.
So, maybe P/N 189 was painted in two colors, altho that prospect seems to be improbable, given the very limited
production of it.
The Regal that LancerMike posted up above here, appears to have a "Chrome" finish trunk "DODGE"
emblem.
Can't really see what color its grille emblem is, but it appears to be black.
Without pulling off a Regal's grille emblem, the GOOD thing is we can easily see if its sides are flat,
or not(ched).....and, hopefully, what its OEM paint finish is.
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-20 8:30 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | OK....here's another real mystery:
WAY up on this page, LancerMike wondered about the identity of the "Molding, Radiator Grille; P/N 1686 756" , as shown on
the dedicated Regal Lancer Parts listing.
Also up-above, Joe Mac shows what appears to be a flat sided Regal Lancer medallion, which is painted black, and which is
very-TIGHTLY speed-nutted right through a grille bar (and which would be a bee-otch to have to remove, from the grille!).
[....Just noticed that Joe's grille ALSO has a THIRD emblem mounting(?) hole, in its middle-vertical 'bar'....]
Paul shows us his R.L. medallion, which features a very-CONVENIENT separate mounting bracket, so that the medallion can
be installed with its two mounting studs located BETWEEN the grille bars.
Now, we look at P/N 1686 756 (the "Molding Radiator Grille", above), in the 55-58 Master Parts Book.
The Good Book shows it to be a 1-piece item (and apparently WITHOUT Joe Mac's "Regal Lancer" emblem-mounting holes in
it, IF.....Paul's Regal Lancer grille and emblem are to be believed).
The Good book also shows that the 'regular' 1958 Dodge grilles are 2-piece assemblies (1754 534 & 1754 535).
However....the G.B. also lists 1686 756 as pertaining to the "CENTER" of the 1958 models LS1(Dodge-bodied Firesweep) and
LC1(Dodge-bodied Windsor).
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-20 5:30 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | On this trunk mat, ... bring me up to speed here, ... is it marked "Dodge" or in any way peculiar to
Dodge ? Or would it be a generic (but nice fitting) mat that would look as right in a Plymouth as in a
Dodge ? I will be needing to detail the Plaza trunk soon enough and this might be the ticket. 
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Location: The Mile High City | Brent, I think someone already makes a reproduction Plymouth trunk mat that is very good. There are some significant differences in the Dodge mat and the Plymouth mat, most notably the spare tire location. Since someone already makes the Plymouth mat, I would go that direction.
No specific "Dodge" markers on the Dodge mat, but very different design from Plymouth or De Soto. I would love to get a De Soto mat!
Put me down for a Dodge mat!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-11-21 1:55 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | This is NOT the place to discuss the availability of 57+ Dodge trunk mats, but, since the
subject was brought up, here are views of a typically worn out mat, and a really nice one.
IF.....the Dodge mat extends fully up and under the spare tire's location, it may be of use to
Brent and others, who don't care about absolute authenticity in their OEM-type rubber trunk
mats.
They could merely cut-out the area, as necessary, on the lower/left side of the mat in order
to accommodate the location and installation of the Plymouth-type spare tire.
Edited by d500neil 2012-11-21 4:19 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Here is an eBay auction for a shield emblem - it is the correct part number, but you can see on the image it has barrel clips on the back. So is this Regal emblem exactly the same as the garden-variety '57 and '58 fender badge? It seems like the drilled grille to fit it would be the rarer item.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160933269858?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 1958 DODGE CUSTOM ROYAL REGAL LANCER GRILLE ORNAMENT NEW!!! MAY FIT OTHER YEARS and I'm offering free shipping to 48 and will ship anywhere for a little extra
On Dec-02-12 at 16:49:55 PST, seller added the following information: PART NUMBER 1757189
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | If you research the back of the Parts Book, for this P/N, you'll see cross-references for this piece on the 58 Custom Sierra wagon's
fins, but also for the 57 CR sedan fins, and Custom Sierra wagon, altho there are no P/N's shown, on those pages, which reference
this P/N.
Confusing, but since it is flush sided, it should have multiple applications.
Here's a bit of a mystery: here's my own NOS emblem, but it has no P/N on it, and its mounting posts are not reinforced at/on
their bases, like your Ebay-guy is.
Edited by d500neil 2012-12-06 6:18 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You want a Mystery?
The Good Book says that this P/N (1757 189) pertains to the Regal Lancers.
The above auction piece (and my no-part-number piece) have the standard triangulated mounting pins on it/them.
But, if you scroll up to Paul's pics of his emblem, you will see that it appears to have a separate mounting plate on it, with
two in-line-horizontal mounting pins on it, and, of course, a separate, dedicated, mounting-backing-plate.
Technically, it does appear that the above emblem 1757 189 would be able to be mounted directly onto a Regal Lancer's grille, with
the grille bars having to be very carefully drilled to accept those three mounting pins' locations (but, it would be real tough
to remove that emblem from the grille, once it is speed-nutted To the grille).
That separate mounting plate has what appears to be three triangulated 'die-ports' (or something) on it, which appear to align with
the three mounting pins' locations.
Those three die-ports probably have concavities on the back side which connect to shortened mounting
pins on the emblem....the back of the 'attached' mounting plate probably press-fits to the emblems' (shortened?) mounting
pins.
Edited by d500neil 2012-12-06 6:45 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | strange indeed! I went down to the parts room and I have three of the 1757 189 badges - common as ketchup. I am just amazed that those are correct for (at the very least the early) Regals!
There almost seems to be an evolution of these badges:
Neil's is like a prototype - here it is, but - oh those pins are weak - reinforce them and go to production
Then you have the regular old 1757 189s - run 60,000 of those babies.
Oh, now we are going to slap those on the Regal grille
That didn't work very well because we are ruining all these grilles!
Make another prototype that mounts to the grille better - you get Paul's badge.
Notch 'em out and run the Spring Specials!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2012-12-07 1:32 PM
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1958 Regal Lancer
