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Location: The Mile High City | Correct you are, Jim. I'll get the fender down from the rafters tomorrow and post a picture. The fender is unmistakeably a '58 Dodge fender. It still had the Spring Special trim on it! Dual head lights and Dodge eyebrow moulding. It also had the saddle two-tone and the tell-tale Dodge bumper and grille clips.
Recognizing the emblem as a '57 DeSoto, I sold it on eBay to a fellow in Florida. I think I wrote down the part number in my eBay description - I'll see if I can look that up - but that was several years ago now.
Perhaps they had a few '57 DeSoto fender ornaments sitting around at the factory and gussied up a few Dodges to help move them off the lots? It is a very strange coincidence! Until I saw this Regal, I thought nothing of it - just that somebody put a DeSoto ornament on that particular Dodge.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-04-24 11:39 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | Let's review ....
The 57 DeSoto fender ornaments were are referring to are big body only ..... standard equipment on Fireflite and Adventurer, ... extra cost optional on Firedome. My saleman's lit says "N/A" for these on Firesweep. The part was radically changed for 58 and again was not available on Firesweep.
The Firesweep was built alongside Dodges, but the big body DeSotos were built miles away at the DeSoto plant.
These ornaments, IF they were put on Dodges of any sort, were very deliberately procured and installed. They were year-old parts that should not have been at a Dodge plant. Two real strong reasons to suggest this was not some mistake or coincidence.
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Posts: 4042
Location: Connecticut | A couple of additional facts about this car: Yes, the scheme is correct. No, the car is not a factory D500. That was added recently. The power windows were also added recently. This was a really nice restoration that Richard recently had repainted. The original dealer plate, which was on the trunk, was removed and the holes were filled. Apparently, he's not into these. I'm of the opinion that the Desoto mouldings were added later. I can create factory looking holes by removing the burrs with a wire wheel on a high speed grinder.
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Location: The Mile High City | Ok! You guys convinced me. I didn't really want to get that fender down from the rafters anyway. Just a coincidence - case closed. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well....not REALLY, Mike; let's see whatcha GOT, anyway!
The molding's installation shadow-impression should be of some interest, too, along with the appearance of the mounting holes.
Don't fink out on us, now; git er down, from your rafters.
....the real-story about how/when/why the 57 Fireflite fender moldings got installed on this 58 Regal would be neat to know.
I'd sure like to see the car's P/T plate, even tho it's not an OEM D500, or had power windows. Does it have a power seat?
Now, I gotta go back and try to see the Y-O-M car, back-earlier in this thread, as has just now been mentioned.
And, Joe, the "Stranger-things-have-happened" arguments have been made regarding Mr. Garlick's creations,
and Hemi engines having been installed in Plymouths, and Hemi engines having been installed in 1958 Dodges.
The proof is in the Corporate 'pudding' (build records), and we are all very much better-off for those
records still being available.
Since someone has 'created' a ("Super", probably) D500, with power windows, out of this car, Mr. Carpenter
would probably not be concerned about removing the 57 DeSoto moldings from it, or, obtaining its Build
Record.
But, I would be willing to bet that those fender moldings will get to be 'Garlicked' into the alleged OEM
build history/story on this car!!!
Edited by d500neil 2009-04-25 8:13 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..And there's 'our' car, at the bottom of page 2 of this thread .
And, Ron; I personally regret that Y-O-M removed the Dealer-nameplate from this car's trunk.
Right after I bought my car, and was finally getting to drive it, around Toledo in 6/81, where it had been
stored, for my eventual pick- up, for 7 months(!) in a private garage near my parents' house, an old
family friend told me :"The first thing that I'd do with 'it' is get rid of THAT thing" (The Ben Medow
South Bend, IN dealership-potmetal nameplate).
In fact, I repaired the slightly-pitted nameplate, and painted it gold.
To me, that nameplate serves as a sort of 'family name' to the car, and I'm rather proud of the fact that that
car SURVIVED a rust-belt Indiana OEM-existence.
To bad Mr. Carpenter doesn't appreciate the car's history.
Edited by d500neil 2009-04-25 8:26 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | I think dealer tags are one of the coolest details one can be lucky enough to have on their car. Our wagon wears its original tag for Eddie's Garage, Deadwood, South Dakota. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | One of the reasons (I think) for the popularity of tattoos is that they express individuality.
That's what the dealership nameplates do, too, imho.
They also serve as a sort of personal Family-name, for the car, and give it a little bit of objective history, and back-story.
Mr. Carpenter apparently felt compelled to remove his Regal's family-tree information, but to keep the 1957 DeSoto's fender trim
installed on it.
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Location: The Mile High City | I wonder if he made it a Super D-500? That is a strange thing to add the power windows, but it probably makes it easier to enjoy. The car looked mighty nice to start off with! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I would rate power windows as one of my favorite options.  |
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Location: Lemoore CA | Lancer Mike - 2009-04-25 5:17 PM
Ok! You guys convinced me. I didn't really want to get that fender down from the rafters anyway. Just a coincidence - case closed. You know? If they put 57 Dodge hood ornaments on them, and there have been two examples of Desoto birds on the fenders, yours and the carpenter car, I don't think it is all that far fetched that they may have come that way, I would really like to see your fender. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | [sigh...] I gotta do all the work around here.
The Clivester's off-line, right now, but "all" shall be revealed, in the near future (bowing-and-scraping will be
much appreciated...).
And, NO; y'all just gonna have to wait, for the pics to appear.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And, be sure to take note of the hood ornament 'info', too.....CLIVE???? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Ok! Ok! I may have the chutzpah to get that dang thing down this weekend. I have a hood up in the rafters too - there is no way I would get that dang hood down - I remember when I put that thing up there - it seemed as though it was twice as heavy as the fenders!
If I get that fender down - I want some good to come of it...after some long and painful discussion and plenty of name calling, we need to hereineverafter agree that '57 De Soto fender ornaments were a legitimate factory option for Spring edition 1958 Dodges! 
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-05-01 5:04 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...DON'T be in any hurry......and the S.-S.'s are a different thread; let's keep THIS one 'pure'.
Edited by d500neil 2009-05-01 5:24 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | I always considered the Regal to be a variant of the spring special. Even though it is not an element of the official spring special literature, its purpose and timing was the same. The Regal is never identified as its own model, rather it is a late-model (i.e. spring) trim option for the Custom Royal; specifically designed to pick up sales after a winter's discontent.
You are right though, let us not kick the barn door open too wide lest all the horses run out.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-05-01 7:04 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, the Regal was introduced at the Chicago Auto Show, around 1/58 , remember, from an earlier posting somewhere
around/above here?
That AIN'T a late-model intro, which, obviously preceded the "Spring Special" models.
Let's see what ol' Dogeroo had to say about this 'late-model Spring Special offshoot', in its Press Kit introduction :
" Newest addition to the Dodge Division's 1958 Line is the 'Regal Lancer', a limited production two-door hardtop introduced
at the Chicago Auto Show..."
The Press Release goes on to document all of the unique features, colors and trim on the car, NONE of which were shared by
the later-introduced Spring Specials, except, for the (Custom Royal's) grille emblem.
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Location: The Mile High City | Dang it, now the horses are out of the barn! Ok, I remember the January intro - when was the first spring special produced? They must have been near the same time, especially since they share that front badge. Like I said, I know they are not one-in-the-same, but they did share the same purpose - and I think the timing of the two was pretty close? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I'm pretty sure that the S.-S.'s were introduced around March.
That 'grille' emblem dates back to the 1957 CR 4-dr sedans, and CS wagons, where it was installed on the fins.
The design of that emblem became the 1958 logo, for Dodge, and was liberally installed on various Custom Royal/Sierra
models.
it didn't 'just' appear, for the first time, on the Regals, altho they were painted in coral-color for the first time (on some, but
not all Regals).
I suppose that's our NEXT question: why did some Regals get coral-colored grille emblems, and the majority(?--seemingly)
get the typical black-painted emblems?
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2009-05-01 9:08 PM
[sigh...] I gotta do all the work around here.
The Clivester's off-line, right now, but "all" shall be revealed, in the near future (bowing-and-scraping will be
much appreciated...).
And, NO; y'all just gonna have to wait, for the pics to appear.
Anybody see # 1624 955 on it ? .....Buehler ?
SORRY,, Been Away for a few Nights..
OK: the first pic shows the Bible (55-58 Parts book) with the
illustration of the 1957 Soto's trim, with the upper molding
identified as being found in Section 12-15-21.
Sec. 12-15-21 is quite large, but the 1957 Soto fender upper-molding is
identified as being 1624 955 , for the big-dog
Adventurer - Fireflite (S26) , and the Firedome (S25) models.
The next photo (love to show it!) is my Regal Lancer Press Kit ,
with additional photos of one of its enclosures which
confirms ALL of the unique Regal parts(numbers).....
Edited by Rebels-59 Coronet 2009-05-03 5:30 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And, as Clive so eloquently posted, above, in case anyone overlooked it : "Anyone see P/N 1624 955 on the Regal's listed
unique parts, above"?
Anyone, Buehler?
So, Mr. Carpenter removed the OE-dealership trunk nameplate, but kept the (almost-certainly; why would the dealership bother
to do it? ) "post-factory" 1957 DeSoto fender ornaments, and added-on the D500 emblem/carb(s), and added on power windows, to a car which is only going to reside in his museum.
The car was last registered to drive, in CA, when the green-colored license plate sticker was in effect.
Altho the year-date of that sticker is printed on it, neither my local CHP nor DMV office could tell me, definitively, when a
green-sticker was last utilized for registration purposes.
And, OBTW, note that the 1957 Dodge hood ornaments are listed as OEM for use on the 1958 Regals.
However, those ornaments are installed on the 1958 hood, which has much-wider-spaced ornament
drillings, than the "1957" hood (which is otherwize identical to the 58 hood).
Everybody knows that the 1957 & the 1958 trunks are also clearly differentiated, right?
Edited by d500neil 2009-05-03 9:32 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | Good detective work! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Actually (duh); I just figured out why Mr. Carpenter removed the trunk's dealership nameplate: in 1958, the "Dodge"
name-script appeared on the passenger's side, leaving only the driver's side, for the dealer's nameplate, OR, for the
D500 emblem to be installed.
Carpenter really had no choice, but to lose the dealership, when he 'created' the D500 model.
In 1957, the 'Dodge' letters appeared spaced-out above the license plate, so that the D500 emblem could be put on the
passenger's side, and the dealership-nameplate could be installed on the driver's side of the trunk.
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Location: The Mile High City | I think you are right, Neil. However, my D-500 coupe has the dealer plate on the driver's side. It gets a bit busy-looking, but it can be done! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Can you PM me a pic of it?
Yeah, having both the dealer's nameplate and the D500 emblem, together, would be busy-looking, but hey...... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Here it is, Neil. You can see little white dots where the dealer plate went. Now that I installed the spring special license plate escutcheon, it is really crowded! I have to find a new location for the dealer plate, but I think it will all fit! Perhaps I can center it between the escutcheon and the D-500 emblem or go below the D-500 emblem. 
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Next winter you could send out your D500 emblem, so that someone could apply 24K gold plating to its Knight's head,
to approximate the appearance of the translucent gold lacquer which was OEM-applied to the 'head'.
Doesn't cost very much money, to do, and really brightens-up the emblem.
Where you put the dealer nameplate pretty much depends upon the size and shape of the nameplate.
Down-low, at about the 4:00-5:00 position, relative to the 500 emblem, might look nice, but,
underneath the escutcheon is probably the best place for it.
Edited by d500neil 2009-05-05 9:00 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | I saw this link and unfortunately I do not have any of the pictures, but it references several Regals - including Pat Grant's http://thegarageblog.com/garage/from-the-savage-speed-garage-58-dodge/#more-4657 |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ....What a STRANGE website to find, regarding "American" automobiles!
It was nice to see a posting from Bo Malefors, there. He does, indeed, have the remains-of a 58 CRL Super D500
convertible, with dealer-installed(apparently) "Texan" emblems on it.
He also had/has the remains-of another 58 CRL 2-dr HT Super D500, which he doesn't mention, in his post, on that thread.
...getting a little off-thread, discussing Super D500s, here, though.
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Location: The Mile High City | Interesting story he had about that Regal getting crushed. Unfortunately, that was probably a more-common-than-not story for the Regal breed! When reading that web page, it occurred to me that there are probably several more Regals out there than the 20+ we counted. I saw an advertisement in Hemming's for one of the Regals recently that claimed there are 12 known survivors. I think we have found more than that without looking too hard.
It was also interesting to see a post from the person who bought the Barrett-Jackson Regal. It seems as though he is interested in finding out more about the car. I wonder if he knows his car is the one featured in the Collectible Automobile article? He must! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1958-Dodge-Custom-Royal-Regal-Lancer...
temQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item1e57aac543&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C39%3A1
a new Regal Lancer to discuss |
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Location: The Mile High City | Good eyes, James:
Up for sale is a 1958 Dodge Custom Royal Regal Lancer. This is a two door hardtop model with approximately 102,000 original miles. This is a rare model in that it was only built in 1958 with a total production of only 1,163 units. I have owned three Regal Lancer's in the past and currently have two. I have a black and bronze model that I will be keeping and I have this white and bronze model that I am offering for sale.
I purchased this car last year from Indiana and had it transported back to Massachusetts. I believe it was restored about 4 or 5 years ago. The car has a new interior with factory correct seat upholstery and a reproduction padded vinyl dash. The door panels have been redone as well as the headliner. It looks like the car had replacement rocker panels installed and the trunk floor had areas repaired. The paint on the body shows nicely but there are flaws in the bronze color. I was told that a good buffing would make a great improvement. The tires are new wide whitewalls by B.F. Goodrich. The lancer spinner hubcaps are original and not reproduction. Most of chrome has been replated except parts of the front bumper and the vent window frames. All the glass is in very nice condition. The steering wheel is special to the Regal Lancer and shows some stress lines in the ivory section. The engine appears to be all original with no modifications. The engine is a 350 big block with 4 barrel carburation. The engine runs very well and doesn't smoke. The transmission is the 3 speed torqueflite and it shifts flawlessly. The dual exhaust is relatively new and sounds great. This particular Regal Lancer does't have many options outside the Regal trim package. It has power steering but no power brakes. I do have a power brake setup that can be sold separately. I also have the correct exhaust tips but they not installed on the car.
Here is info on the Regal Lancer model:
Trying to boost sales the Regal Lancer model was added in February of 1958 and was only available as a 2-door hardtop with special exterior colors and full surround side trim. Four color combinations where available; bronze with white trim, bronze with black trim, black with bronze trim, or white with bronze trim. It featured special nameplates (Regal Lancer) on the front fenders and heavy eyebrow trim. Inside, Regal Lancers got their own interior with unique bucket seat styling and door panels featuring molded armrests. A special Acousti-Foam headliner with chrome bows and chrome roof rails was a Regal Lancer exclusive, as was the bronze instrument panel with textured aluminum inserts. The standard engine offered for Regal Lancers was the 350 cubic inch displacement "Super Red Ram" V8. Optional engine choices were the 361 cubic inch displacement "D-500" and "Super D-500" iterations. Only 1,163 were produced during the model run in 1958 and making this one rare automobile. It has been discussed that maybe only 20 - 30 Regal Lancers exist today! A fine example of a bronze and black model sold last year at a Barrett-Jackson auction for $70,000.
If anyone would like to contact me regarding more information on this automobile I can be reached at this phone number: 508-867-3888
Auction info: Please do not bid on this automobile if you have no intentions of owning this car. Ebay bidders with less than 10 feedbacks or negative feedback should email me before placing any bids. I reserve the right to end this auction early since I have also placed an ad in Hemmings Motor News.
The high bidder is requested to send a $2,000 deposit within 48 hours of the end of auction. The car can be stored for a short period as agreed upon by new owner.
Good Luck and please email me if have any questions!
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | They couldn't have bbeen more obvious with "power steering" information |
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Location: The Mile High City | It has some obvious kinks like the headliner and white seat (which might still be right), but this one is very nice! I have no idea what the reserve is. I would guess this is worth quite a bit. It looks as though he has a second one based on the photographs of the literature. |
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Location: The Mile High City | I wonder if this is the same one that was in Hemmings and on Craigslist recently...
Is it unusual to have the rear bumper guards without the front spuds?
Wow! This fellow owns three Regals!  I think the black and bronze is the Richard's Regal discussed earlier.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-07-20 4:24 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The front, and/or the rear bumper guards ("vertical bars") were individual optional items on all 58 Dodges---you could get it/
them on a stripper 6-cylinder Club Coupe.
The front and the rear guards were both available as part of the "Bumper Appearance Group", which also included
an aluminum license plate 'insert'.
This car does NOT have that license plate insert, or, the front guards, so, it looks like it merely has the 'individual' option for the rear "vertical bars".
I am 'missing' something, here, though: how does it appear that this seller might own three Regals?
When I saw the pic of the advertising-stuff, above, I assumed (bad) that that pic might have been taken before "THIS" car
got RE-painted.
You're saying that the 'grody' car is another Regal, he owns?
Edited by d500neil 2009-07-20 5:36 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Ah, you are correct - the description states "I have owned three Regals in the past and currently own two..." I assumed the one in the literature photo was the other.
I believe this is the person who bought the Kansas / Richards Regal D-500 (the only Bronze roof and fins over a Black body shown in this thread) from Colorado and transported it to the east coast.
I put in a bid of $5,000 - but I believe he is looking for $40,000 more to go with it.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-07-20 6:02 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The Regals get chromed headliner bows, right?
If so, then this car's eggshell headliner bows could be sold to some deserving soul, and the car's new owner could then buy
MoPar Mel's (proper-) chromed headliner bows, and install them, along with some sort of reasonable-facsimile bronze-
colored vinyl headliner material.
The black vinyl seat middle sections can be installed via any good local auto-upholstery shop.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Lancer Mike - 2009-07-20 10:59 PM
I put in a bid of $5,000 - but I believe he is looking for $40,000 more to go with it.
Hmm.. I Bid $10,000...... You may be Correct.. |
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Location: The Mile High City | the piece-de-resistance would be the correct trunk mat! That is all stuff that I could easily live with - unlike a few of the modifications on the Frostbite. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yo, Clive; any chance you (and/or the Chuckster, or Mike, here) could hop a plane to middle-of-nowhere U.S., for the Branson
festivities?
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | a regal lancer in my back yard!!! act. 55 miles away your in the middle of
the state worc. co. im in somerville next to cambridge middlesex county. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | a regal lancer in my back yard!!! act. 55 miles away your in the middle of
the state west brookfield worc. co. im in somerville next to cambridge middlesex county. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Be careful, Steve. I saw a De Soto advertised locally and I figured - "well, I might as well go out and take a look - I'll never see another" - now I own it!
Catch me up to speed - what are the Branson festivities??? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Rebels-59 Coronet - 2009-07-20 4:59 PM
Hmm.. I Bid $10,000...... You may be Correct..
Clive, you sneak! There goes my $5,000 Regal Lancer! |
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Expert
Posts: 4042
Location: Connecticut | The car being sold on ebay is Brian Huard's car. He also owns the black-over-copper factory D500 Regal mentioned earlier in the thread. He sold his first Regal a couple of years ago to Richard Carpenter.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | brian HUARD!?!?!? THAT WAS MY MOM'S MAIDEN NAME!!!! THERE ARENT THAT MANY HUARDS AROUND! PATRICIA LEA ROSE (CARR) FRANK RONALD
RING A BELL? darn this car is a fwd look lovers dream dripping with 50's
cool!!! i drool every time i see it on here..... ill cruise until the tires fall off
with a cigarette pack in my t shirt sleeve with my arm out the window!!!!
if its im the family.... well...... my moms family grew up in nh manchester and claremont |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Your mother was named Brian? |
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Inactive by Request
Posts: 1292
Location: Lovely place | He's from countryside. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Placing an on-line auction on eBay sure generates a lot more "buzz" than a Hemmings ad or Craigslist. I don't know if this will sell Mr. Huard's car, but it sure seems to have gained some attention on this site. Maybe their fees are worth it after all? I think Clive and I are trading high (uh, well still pretty low) bids on this one. Just so you know, Clive - my latest lame bid was $16,019.58!
I would imagine the reserve is somewhere around $30,000... |
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1958 Regal Lancer
