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Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> Miss Belvedere - The Unearthed Tulsarama Plymouth!	Message format

Rebels-59

Posted 2008-04-27 5:24 AM (#127363 - in reply to #124356)
Subject: The Roof is FINISHED

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Here is the Lastest PIC, ... Ultra F-up ( as Neil Says ) have finished using their Oinment on the Roof,, This stuff is GREAT.. What do you all think of the results,,

..

(3.jpg)

(2.jpg)

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bad58mike

Posted 2008-04-27 11:23 AM (#127387 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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lawrence

Posted 2008-04-27 6:38 PM (#127432 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Anyone seen the interior of Miss B lately?

http://forum.missbelvedere.com/bbs/download.php?id=179&sid=78a4bb0b...

FinFury57

Posted 2008-04-28 1:17 AM (#127468 - in reply to #127432)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Well, the steering wheel looks quite nice.

d500neil

Posted 2008-04-28 8:17 PM (#127598 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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TOO funny!

At FIRST, I thought that Ultra-None had, indeed, removed the roof!

Edited by d500neil 2008-04-28 8:19 PM

1955Coronado

Posted 2008-05-15 2:17 PM (#130113 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Just checked - here's the latest:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I talked to Dwight
by carguylee on Thu May 15, 2008 12:40 pm

Ok everyone, I was able to talk to Dwight today, and he had some very reasonable answers for what is going on.

First of all he said there hasn't been any work done on Miss Belvedere since the photo of her with the fender looking pretty decent. They have been having a tough time with the caked on stuff that has become like concrete which someone else on here posted. It was good to note though that he said they have a chemist working on it and trying to come up with something to remove that stuff easier.

Second he said that there wasn't any rush to work on her, there are no events scheduled to put a rush on it so they are trying to take their time. He said this summer they plan to get aggressive with trying to work on her, and plan to remove the body from the frame, but that they are treating her as an artifact.

Third he said there hasn't been anything on the website because there hasn't been anything done and they lost their web person and don't have another one yet.

So we have some reasonable answers, he also said that nothing crazy is going on with the car, so no worries there. It's best to give them the benifit of the doubt at this point. So we will hopefully see some progress starting this summer. He also pointed out that they are taking lots of pictures, and that there was a magazine out there recently too, I forgot to write down the name of it.

So I guess it's wait and see time again.carguylee

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Linkage: http://forum.missbelvedere.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=192&sid=7072...

Edited by 1955Coronado 2008-05-15 2:19 PM

d500neil

Posted 2008-05-15 2:26 PM (#130116 - in reply to #130113)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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..Define "crazy".....

Rebels-59

Posted 2008-05-15 2:43 PM (#130118 - in reply to #130116)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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d500neil - 2008-05-15 7:26 PM

..Define "crazy".....

Removing Body from Frame......

Nathan D. Manning

Posted 2008-05-15 2:57 PM (#130119 - in reply to #130116)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

d500neil - 2008-05-15 2:26 PM

..Define "crazy".....

1) Attempting to restore Miss Belvedere...
2) Allowing Steve Hobby within 100 yards of this car...

And those are just a couple of things we already KNOW about.

Of course, the list could go on and on regarding "crazy" behaviour around the car...
Including, but not limited to the following actions:

* Proposing marriage to Miss Belvedere (and/or attempting to consummate said union)...
* Cutting the car in half with a sawzall...
* Dancing naked around the car when nobody is looking...
* Tossing a lighted sign on the roof of the car and using her to deliver pizzas...
* Holding a seance to contact the displaced spirit of Miss Belvedere...
* Inviting a faith healer to lay hands on Miss Belvedere...

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-05-15 3:18 PM

Rebels-59

Posted 2008-05-15 3:20 PM (#130134 - in reply to #130119)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Nathan D. Manning - 2008-05-15 7:57 PM

d500neil - 2008-05-15 2:26 PM

..Define "crazy".....

* Inviting a faith healer to lay hands on Miss Belvedere...

-NM

Didn,t They Try That....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

FinFan

Posted 2008-05-16 5:15 AM (#130213 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Hehe, they are sure that there is a body and a frame that can be separated :D

d500neil

Posted 2008-05-16 4:16 PM (#130277 - in reply to #130213)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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At this point in the debacle, I hope/expect that the car will be parted out, eventually.

What a frigging-shame.....

Rebels-59

Posted 2008-05-16 6:04 PM (#130314 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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I can see the AD Now..

" Own you Very Own Piece of Miss Belvedere. "...

How many lot,s ( pieces ) do you reckon will be for Sale to cover the Costs of Tranportation and F-ck-up to NJ..

The Winner Owner should of done the RightFul thing and taken the $300,000 and sold it to the Museum..

big m

Posted 2008-05-16 8:20 PM (#130321 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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1955Coronado

Posted 2008-05-16 8:38 PM (#130322 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Yeah, I personally wanted preservation so the rusting process could at least be arrested or even halted - don't support restoration at all.

1955Coronado

Posted 2008-05-18 3:23 AM (#130436 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Another update - who wants to see pics now?

:

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http://forum.missbelvedere.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=193&sid=5352...

Update
by hotrodpierre on Sat May 17, 2008 11:00 pm

Hey Guys,
Long time lurker, first time poster. I too have been frustrated by the lack of news on Miss Belvedere, so thanks to one of the gents on this board, I sent an email to The Tulsa World and just got a response from Randy Krehbiel, here is his response.

"Jake:

I am planning a follow up story for next month, the anniversary of the "dig." I have talked to Dwight Foster a couple of times, including this week, and seen some fairly recent photos of the car. They do seem to be making some progress, but very slowly. Foster told me this week the frame has completely failed and he's going to transfer the body to another Belvedere frame."

So it looks like she is not fairing as well as we thought. Chime in.

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Edited by 1955Coronado 2008-05-18 3:24 AM

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Posted 2008-05-18 2:38 PM (#130468 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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...Foster told me this week the frame has completely failed and he's going to transfer the body to another Belvedere frame."

Well DUH! We could have told the Ultra-Dud dodos that was going to happen last June! Corrosion that was so bad that it crumbled the rear leaf springs and left them in pieces in the vault must have been attacking the frame too. It's lucky that the car didn't break in half while it was being transported to the convention hall!

If the corrosion was that bad, what makes Ultra-Dud and Steve Hobby think it'll be possible to separate the frame from the body to slide a new solid Belvedere frame underneath it and not have the body fold up like a piece of used aluminium foil? Mark my words, they're going to be selling the rusty remains by the bucket-load to the incredulous before they're done f**king with it.

furiousbassman

Posted 2008-05-18 4:52 PM (#130476 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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LATEST NEWS MISS BELVEDERE HAS BEEN FOUND
RESTORED AND PARKED UP AT THE HEMSBY
ROCK N ROLL WEEKENDER OR IS THIS ONE A 58 LOL ?

Edited by furiousbassman 2008-05-18 4:59 PM

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My57Saratoga

Posted 2008-05-18 8:00 PM (#130492 - in reply to #124356)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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OK Guys,
I hope I can put some of the speculation to rest. Last week I had a business trip to the Big Apple and on Friday decided to visit Ultra One with the hopes of seeing Miss Belvedere again. I met with Dwight Foster for well over an hour and was able to take as many pictures of the car as I wanted. (Please excuse the pix' quality, the only thing I had was a disposable camera!!) I'll post some of them here and will put the rest of them in an album here when I have time. Everything echoed by Dwight in earlier posts in this thread he told me. (No progress pictures because he lost his website guy, the clay hardened to concrete, no rush to work on her....) The first picture on this thread, posted by Fearless, is basically how the car looks today, (except the hood is off). It still covered in the concrete-like clay which Dwight sees as one of his greatest obstacles toward refurbishment. It's still sitting on the concrete blocks. A donor car (Savoy) was found in North Carolina and will serve as a replacement frame as well as other replacement parts. As for the plans for the car, Dwight told me that the sole goal of the owner and Ultra One is to get the car running and driving under its own power with as much of her originality as possible intact. There are no plans to restore her beyond this point. Dwight is aware of the comments made on the Ultra One forum and emphasized that it is not his intention to keep anyone in the dark RE Miss B's progress. As I stated above he does not have a website person and only has limited human resources to do the work in his shop. As for an unveiling the owner hopes to return Miss B next summer to Tulsa and have her unveiled on top of the vault at the courthouse. He has been in touch with Paula Hale, Sharon King Davis et al about another "Tulsarama". The car would then go on tour to venues such as Carlisle. Dwight said he welcomes visitors to Ultra One and has nothing to hide. He's extremely personable and welcomes all questions. As for my intentions, all I wanted was to see the car, (I had no hidden agenda!)! As the pictures below will show, they have been able to clean up the right fender quite a bit. It appeared pretty solid; the best way to describe the finish of the fender is a comparison to river rocks which are imbedded in concrete used in driveways and patios. I think you can see what I mean in the photo. They cleaned up a piece of a valve cover and got it remarkably clean. You can also see the results on the radiator cap as well as other areas such as the steering wheel. The dashboard has been cleaned enough to confirm that the car has 4 miles on it. The Jiffy Jet bag was in good shape and you can still read the MOPAR logo on the battery (it was never disconnected). I also saw the cowl tag, (the tag just under the hood right above the master cylinder) and the number on it is 9421. They have not yet opened the drivers door to see the VIN tag. There is a hole in the roof, a hole in the right rear panel above the wheel and quite a few holes in the valance between the rear fender and trunk. I was amazed at how well they were able to clean the wheel covers; they have also been in the trunk and salvaged the spare tire as well as the jack and other items, (they found another Schlitz can). The gentleman in the photo of the donor car is Dwight. Enjoy the pix; shoot me any ?? you may have.....

Mike

Edited by My57Saratoga 2008-05-18 9:22 PM

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My57Saratoga

Posted 2008-05-18 8:54 PM (#130494 - in reply to #130492)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Another note:

Many of you have probably seen the recreation in a hangar of the fuselage of TWA 800, the 747 which crashed in the Atlantic shortly after takeoff from JFK about 10 years ago. Dwight noted that they have salvaged quite a bit of the car's interior upholstery and hope to "recreate" and put on display with the car the interior with the original fabric much like TWA 800. (Although they're planning on using as much of the original interior as they can, (seat supports etc), in the "refurbished" car.

Mike

1955Coronado

Posted 2008-05-18 9:09 PM (#130496 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Good on ya, Mike! I know if I was on a business trip, my spare time would be down to nil. Thanks much, guy!!!

Just what I was afraid of, though - she sat too long without any treatment whatsoever to arrest the rusting process. Now, she's as brittle as attic newspaper and they're gonna end up crumpling her by attempting to set her on a new frame at this point.

My57Saratoga

Posted 2008-05-18 9:13 PM (#130497 - in reply to #130496)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Yea I don't know how they plan on getting that frame under her....Dwight did say he wished he would have gotten the car before the clay had hardened to concrete and had been able to rinse that stuff off!!!

Mike

Edited by My57Saratoga 2008-05-18 9:21 PM

MOPAR-TO-YA

Posted 2008-05-19 12:10 AM (#130509 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Thanks Mike for the report and pics. At last, I feel we got some very credible information. At this point, the only thing they CAN do is replace the frame. Did you see the condition or if there was any floor pams left? My bet is that they can support the body well enough to roll the frame under it. Especially if there are floor braces still there......................................MO

My57Saratoga

Posted 2008-05-19 2:22 AM (#130527 - in reply to #130509)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Steve, can't really comment on the condition of the floor pans. I can say the rear quarters are pretty thin as evidenced by the holes which have popped up since Tulsarama. The glass has also been etched by the water and clay but Dwight thinks he may be able to clean it up somewhat. He also plans to use the trunk lid braces and trunk torsion bars from the donor car to replace those on Miss B......

Nathan D. Manning

Posted 2008-05-19 6:06 AM (#130544 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Where are the pictures of you on the floor... looking up under her with a spotlight?
If you had been able to take a picture like THAT, we could've called you a "consultant," too!

Great post, Mike... Good to hear (and SEE) what's actually going on with the car up there.
Thanks for the update!

-NM

Edited by Nathan D. Manning 2008-05-19 6:35 AM

My57Saratoga

Posted 2008-05-19 9:34 AM (#130560 - in reply to #130544)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Too bad you weren't there Nathan, as our resident journalist you would have asked all the right questions!

Also, if you're wondering why no photo of the entire car...it's because it's in a 4 bay garage with two other cars. All the materials (worklights, etc) and some parts (hood, for example), for Miss B surround the car and would make a clear shot photo impossible.

Mike

Edited by My57Saratoga 2008-05-19 10:47 AM

d500neil

Posted 2008-05-19 2:08 PM (#130589 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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This idea (of "restoring" the car, or getting it "driveable no-matter-what-the-cost-to-try-to-save-face") is so obscenely
funny, if it weren't so tragic, is beyond belief.

DRIVEABLE?

"PLAYOFFS...Are you kidding me; DRIVEABLE??" (sorry, can't get enuf of that rant by pro-American-football coach Jim Mora!)

How much of the original artifact would have to be destroyed, inn order to make it become "driveable"?

WHOA-----MAJOR 'Nam flashback going on, here; ' this sound familiar? : "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"
- Gen Wm. Westmoreland.

d500neil

Posted 2008-05-19 2:21 PM (#130592 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Mark, the present-"exposed" condition of the car, that we are seeing, has absolutely NOTHING to do with the lack of
any "preservation", or rust-treatments that the car 'could' have received immediately after it was un-earthed.

What we are seeing is merely what was HIDDEN from view by the accumulated patina/corrosion/etc that had developed
over 50-years' time.

It took no Superman X-ray vision to know, immediately, that the car was in a state of magnificent desolation, and that it
should have been preserved, as-was, as an historical artifact.

The Family & Ultra-F-U-C-K-Up thought that the car could be financially exploited, but, in the best O. Henry irony, they only
succeeded in destroying any historical, and probably monetary, value that the car may have possessed.

Rebels-59

Posted 2008-05-19 3:00 PM (#130606 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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After Various Parts are Replaced to turn " Miss Belv " into a Ordinary Rolling Restore, And Ultra and Earned the $$$$ parading it around the Country, WHAT THEN ??????????? As putting it in a Museum THEN ain,t gonna work.. Because FACT,, It ain,t no longer " As it came out of the Tomb " , It is just ANOTHER 57 Plymouth with a FEW Original "Miss Belve" Parts Fitted..

SAD.... So SAD.... $$$$$$$$$ rule the Brain Again , and a Genuine Piece of American History / Artifact is Destroyed in the Process..

.

FURY

Posted 2008-05-19 11:36 PM (#130700 - in reply to #130492)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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GREAT PICS MIKE!!!!
Well I was told that MoPars of this era never had MoPar batteries, they had Willards or something. Always sounded strange to me, but it was from one of the most respected MoPar gurus on the planet. The Tulsa Plymouth could reveal so many truths-I hope they don't pull her apart too much, or all this history will be lost and reassembled incorrectly.
Was the battery embossed with the MoPar logo? Is there any way we could get to see a pic of that battery in good detail? Do you have any contact with the current caretaker?
Thanks,
Glenn.
57 Fury.

My57Saratoga

Posted 2008-05-20 7:36 AM (#130731 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Glenn, the battery does have a MOPAR logo on it...

Mike

58 DESOTOS RULE

Posted 2008-05-20 12:27 PM (#130757 - in reply to #130731)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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My57Saratoga - 2008-05-20 6:36 AM Glenn, the battery does have a MOPAR logo on it... Mike

Not that it matters NOW, but I wonder why the Tulsarama officials didn't remove the battery before they put the car in the vault? They were supposed to do so according to their own story, but it definatly was still connected when I saw the car in Tulsa at the convention center last year.

wizard

Posted 2008-05-20 3:13 PM (#130795 - in reply to #130492)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Nice pictures Mike - it makes me sad to look at them though! I always wanted them to leave her be just as she was found.
It's amazing how the interior is like almost vaporised.

goldduster360

Posted 2008-05-20 3:33 PM (#130802 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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You know there is a point where something is so far gone that is futile to even attempt to rescue it. I would say this poor car falls into the same catergory as the Titanic. It's a shame this one never even really took a maiden voyage. I think it should be sent to rest with the Titanic.

I have been following this story for some time since this car was resurrected. I thought it was nothing more than a ploy for free publicity when Ultra took the car on. I also know from looking at the pics there is no way ever this car will run again with any of it's original parts. How do they plan on driving the pistons out of the cylinder bores? Even the valve covers have rust holes in them. I had a marine engine that sat with water in it for a week and it was nearly impossible to get the pistons out, they were froze solid. How tight do you think that thing is after a fifty year dunk in the water.

While no good deed goes unpunished neither does a ploy for free cheap publicity. Glad I am not involved in any way with this mess

Nathan D. Manning

Posted 2008-05-20 3:43 PM (#130805 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Welcome to the ForwardLook Network, Bob.
There are several folks here that share your sentiments... and even a few more optimistic views here and there.

As a new member, this is an interesting place to put your first post...
Nonetheless, we look forward to getting to know you better.

Please complete your user profile... Let us know where you're from and what you're into.
Im assuming you have a gold duster with a 360... but please tell us more about yourself.

-NM

wizard

Posted 2008-05-20 3:45 PM (#130807 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Welcome to the gang Bob! It would be nice if you update your profile with your location - it would help you and us others. I agree totally with your point of view about Miss Belvedere.

hemidenis

Posted 2008-05-25 7:32 PM (#131535 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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What a sad view, drivable? What joke, trims, hubcaps, glass and lenses is the only thing drivable. Poor donor Savoy, is not really a donor, Tulsa car is the real donor here. What a f**k up owner she encountered after 50 years in the water.

d500neil

Posted 2008-05-25 10:57 PM (#131554 - in reply to #131535)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Yeah, it's sad and ironic how stupid and greedy the winning Family was, in relation to what shall have become of the car, compared to what the car represented in its as-unearthed condition.

lawrence

Posted 2008-05-25 11:56 PM (#131558 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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It could have been worse

(Miss Belvedere.jpg)

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Miss Belvedere.jpg (70KB - 3358 downloads)

Nathan D. Manning

Posted 2008-05-26 11:53 AM (#131624 - in reply to #131558)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

lawrence - 2008-05-25 11:56 PM

It could have been worse :laugh:

That's freakin' hilarious, Larry.
Good one!

(Did you photoshop that... or is it from the Boyd archives? LOL)

-NM

lawrence

Posted 2008-05-26 11:57 AM (#131625 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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I borrowed it from photobucket

hemidenis

Posted 2008-05-26 12:46 PM (#131635 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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Larry that was exactly that i was expecting to find, but with the block and trans in the bottom. We all get something good of all this tragedy, and is that Mopar batteries came with the car when new, (Opps Gary), you have to retype you catalog :), and second you don’t give a piece of history (to someone who never was interested in old cars) to do whatever he want with it.

Edited by hemidenis 2008-05-26 12:47 PM

Rainer

Posted 2008-06-19 4:35 AM (#134781 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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I think that Biss B. comes with a bad engine and the deales says, okay, what possibilities we have.... LET's find a grave for it.

After months of waiting for Miss Belvedere and see what they did I'm shocked!

At the beginning they have 2 possibilities. First to

x) put it into a Museum and let it as it is, maybe like a light bulb under glas with a special gas inside to stop rust
x) made a FULL restore of the car, paint it in Chistine red, tint the glases black and go to the next Plymouth meeting

What they did is bad to the history, it's the same if your dog die, he is dead you should not try to wash his coat put something inside and stay it next to your bed, or give him new feets to make it "drive...." ahhh sorry, I mean "walkable"....

Please do not misunderstand me, I love the 57 and 58 Plymouth and I'm very happy if I see anyone drive around, but there are some borders who should not be overshoot....

d500neil

Posted 2008-06-19 6:40 PM (#134837 - in reply to #134781)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Yes, Ranier, and the tragedy is that is IS too late, now, to save the car as an historical artifact.

If the car is cobbled-together, somehow, it's going to be a laughingstock Frankenstein-mobile......

I say: put it out of its misery, now, and just part-it-out.

FURY

Posted 2008-06-19 6:53 PM (#134841 - in reply to #134837)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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I'll take the stainless moldings and the glass....!

Edited by FURY 2008-06-19 6:54 PM

hemidenis

Posted 2008-06-19 8:10 PM (#134862 - in reply to #123355)
Subject: RE: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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dont forget the lenses and hubcaps, and the crack free steering wheel!!!

Edited by hemidenis 2008-06-19 8:11 PM

d500neil

Posted 2008-06-19 9:38 PM (#134876 - in reply to #134862)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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There are quite a few really nice individual parts on her; look at the vent window assemblies..

58 DESOTOS RULE

Posted 2008-06-21 4:08 PM (#135106 - in reply to #134841)
Subject: Re: Current Miss Belvedere Progress

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FURY - 2008-06-19 5:53 PM I'll take the stainless moldings and the glass....! :)

Isn't the glass etched beyond repair by the action of the water over the years? On the other hand, the stainless mouldings should still be good and maybe the chrome bumpers as well. One of Codpiece's grease monkeys tried to shine a bit of the front bumper for the unveiling at the arena on the 15th of June last year.