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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
  
| I just wanted to make the 100th post on this thread. I've given up giving a s**t about these absurd posts! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1060
Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | http://cgi.ebay.com/Jesus-toast-/260705955086?pt=AU_CulturalReligio...
Hey I was wondering if you all could verify if this is what it is suppose to be. I hate to spend money if it is not real  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-12-14 5:41 AM
Frankly, I could not give a F!CK about some clown trying to sell his car if he / she doesn't put ALL
their cards out on the table. All eBay sellers might not be swindlers, but far more are misleading in
their sales than have ever been on the buying side ! Saying they will provide further details upon
request is nothing short of hiding something. Give me a good reason for not just putting the infor-
mation out there in the first place. It wasn't like it saved time or typing. It is only to make people
work a little harder to get the facts, that is nothing but obfuscation in my book.
Well, then I guess that puts me in league with the shady money-grubbers. It isn't possible to answer all questions in an ad... and I have used the blanket statement of "more details upon request" many times.
If you think that the commentary made about these cars or other members is fully respectful, Doc, then I beg you to scroll up and re-read. There is a way to discuss what constitutes original vs. modified without coming across as though "factory original" is the only way a car will retain value. It is also quite a different discussion when members actively discuss "stepping in" as a 3rd party to a transaction that has nothing to do with them. I'm not against reporting people who have blatantly misrepresented a car as something it is not, but it is not fair to take every seller with this same regard just because he "didn't put all of his cards on the table".
Information is available to those who want it. "Seek and ye shall find." The shut-up mentality prevents people from finding valuable information they might need to know concerning a car. The reputation of being judgemental about every minute detail in a condescending way does too.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7819
 
Location: Williams California | Great Lakes Belv - 2010-12-13 8:08 PM
I (formerly) worked for the nations largest auto auction company. My job was to inspect, photograph and post online vehicles for sale to dealers across the country. It was VITAL that previous bodywork and every flaw was clearly documented and shown so the dealers knew exactly what they were buying. If thats appropriate for a 3 year old family car then its even more so for a rare classic.
A few years ago I was suffering from FL fever and growing tired of waiting for one to show up for sale in michigan. Not being the type of person who can fly around the country to inspect cars for sale I nearly bought a plymouth sight unseen off of Ebay. Then that car showed up in a thread on this website. The members of this board pointed out several problems that I had failed to notice and were not mentioned by the seller. Problems which later turned out to be true and even greater than had been theorized in the thread. Those comments saved a foolish FL newbie (me) thousands of dollars.
Even better, because I didn't purchase that particular car I was able to snag a 57 that turned up for sale not far away a few months later. This time I spent a good hour crawling in the dirt underneath it inspecting every inch using the knowledge gained from this site. The car I ended up getting was much nicer and much cheaper than the ebay car, and I owe it to the people on this forum.
Comments like "my d#%k has better taste than that guy" are funny but dont really help potential buyers. Whether a 1 of 17 top end model, a mild custom or a rusty (yet just as cool) sedan, YOUR informed opinions are a valuable part of any research that can be done when buying a classic FL car. When RESPECTFULLY voiced those opinions are important and can save future friends hassle, heartbreak and lots of cash.
This IS a good point.
I have noticed that with the advent of E-Bay, and Craigslist, there are an awful lot of sellers advertising cars for sale, that are just consigned to the lister, and all they know is what the owner has told them. This equates to a lot of misinformation about the item for sale, more often than not. It is best to be armed with as much information as possible, especially when making a purchase as big as a vehicle.
Inspecting the vehicle yourself is always the best thing, although often not possible.
---John |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1124
Location: CA | I found the ad fairly slippery. He used the term "not a clone," in regards to the model but in casual reading someone might think it's authentic and applies to the car as a whole. He might not have been intentionally deceptive but that's what the judiciary system is for. For that kind of money the p/t tag info should have been provided and I think the wording should have been much more specific addressing what this car is and/or was. I'm not interested in "picking" anybodies car apart I just think that the ad was rather slippery with words and that's not a good thing which is exactly where this thread would be useful to any potential buyer. Furthermore the guy also said in the ad he sold it to the guy in Sweden so he knows exactly what the car is/was.
Edited by Finsinthemirror 2010-12-14 1:42 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | I too found it evasive and full of little implications to suggest is was something it was not.
But Jessica is right in the end game, both sides need to exercise respect and maybe get a
thicker skin in the process ???
I hold great disdain for scumbags and suckweasels and see far more potential problem from
a seller than I ever do from a buyer. For that reason I value the free flow of information, but
as stated above, it can be put forth as straight fact and not laced with personal preferences, ..
although I gotta admit, we do see some real abominations cross this board !!
The buyer is ultimately responsible for their own pocketbook and of they fail to adequately look
about for scum, they are likely to get suckweaseled. No one can protect another from themselves !! |
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Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | One of the problems with listing a car the way it was, is that some people are bidding on what they "Think", is the "Real Thing"
That artifically inflates the bidding, and alto good for guys like me, that own one, I do not think it is fair to other folks who hope
someday to find a "Reasonable Priced one" like a real CR Conv (or Coronet Conv) with the 361 or 326, and minus all the "goodies"
Swingout and power seats, power windows etc etc. These won't be available anymore, (at least Convertibles).
Let me give you a perfect example.
Friend of mine was looking for a 59 Dodge Vert, thought he had found one for a "Semi-reasonable price", but the seller saw the
Red & White 361 go for $150 K and He watched the bidding on the blue and white car. He decided to add the gudies, Convert it to a
Super D 500 and then ask for what "These Loaded Tribute Super D 500's are selling for---ie 0ver a 150 Grand. 
Gary |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | ok sorry - so it was a crl - just brought back to the " dealership " and added high performace motor and added
accessories... no harm in that!!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 508
Location: Orlando |
He is misrepresenting that toast as Jesus, when in fact it is the Mona Lisa...probably because he knows that Jesus has historically been a bigger sell.  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 636
| There is a guy here in Vermont (USA) who is marketing a toaster that burns an image of Jesus on the bread . . . presumably you can get your Jesus lighter or darker by adjusting the light/dark dial.
http://jesustoasters.com/
So, I would be very dubious of this guy's claim that HIS Jesus-toast is an original work of art.
I just want to make sure nobody gets scammed.
Sparky |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1053
Location: Ny | Now I know what I want for Christmas! Secret Santy, get on it! LOL |
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Location: Parts Unknown | sparky7 - 2010-12-15 11:14 PM
There is a guy here in Vermont (USA ) who is marketing a toaster that burns an image of Jesus on the bread . . . presumably you can get your Jesus lighter or darker by adjusting the light/dark dial.
http://jesustoasters.com/
So, I would be very dubious of this guy's claim that HIS Jesus-toast is an original work of art.
I just want to make sure nobody gets scammed.
Sparky
*******************************************
That would be the first time in history that anyone got scammed over Jesus ! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1060
Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | sparky7 - 2010-12-15 2:14 AM
There is a guy here in Vermont (USA ) who is marketing a toaster that burns an image of Jesus on the bread . . . presumably you can get your Jesus lighter or darker by adjusting the light/dark dial.
http://jesustoasters.com/
So, I would be very dubious of this guy's claim that HIS Jesus-toast is an original work of art.
I just want to make sure nobody gets scammed.
Sparky
So what your saying is I should get some VIN info on this toast to make sure it is authentic.
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Location: Parts Unknown | " I didn't know they gave away rings for the Holocaust !" 
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Expert
Posts: 1220
Location: SWITZERLAND | Looks nice and perfect is one thing. This car has both without a doubt. Drive-feeling is another thing and cannot be described. Thus, I would like to drive this car and compare it with mine: acceleration, noise, street behaviour- the overall feeling! As I already described somewhere, the body of my 59 Convertible is optimal "sound-conditioned" and drives absolute silence and smooth, as the big MBs, an attribute that had never been discussed here on such nice cars. - SERGE -
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| This car is up for sale again this weekend at Barrett Jackson.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Archive/Event/Item/1959-DODGE-CUSTOM... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5051
| wow this is an ancient thread. Honestly with the work done at the shop you don't know if the body is original even. But it is complete at the end of the day. Heck it may be a coronet body to start with but sheetmetal is sheetmetal.
I can get you a 59 crown royal vin with title in a day or two though probably. Title salesman are all over the place for these old cars. Its up to the buyer to hunt down the true history of these "investment grade" cars.
Vins and titles are very loosey goosey in the last 5-8 years, scrap yards closing with old titles flying all over. Next thing you know a hemi charger is alive and well and restored selling for 80k on mecum...
If you don't do your research, your are the one at fault for bidding it up. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Nice work, Mike! I like it when folks use an older related thread - you can get all the context and not have to rehash everything. This is still a wonderful car! It looks like the old price was bid up to $175,250 (no sale). I wonder what it will fetch this weekend?  no reserve too!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2015-01-16 11:38 AM
 (59 CRL conv 1.jpg)
 (59 CRL conv 2.jpg)
 (59 CRL conv 3.jpg)
 (59 CRL conv 4.jpg)
Attachments
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 59 CRL conv 1.jpg (125KB - 160 downloads)
59 CRL conv 2.jpg (131KB - 178 downloads)
59 CRL conv 3.jpg (134KB - 335 downloads)
59 CRL conv 4.jpg (143KB - 154 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| The owner has the data sheet on the windshield of the car. They are still listing it as a super D. I will be on stage tonight when it comes up. I'm in the "Death before prius" shirt |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: Georgia |
Very good, Mike! We'll be watching out for you!
Pete |
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | It sells tonight then, not Saturday? Good luck if you decide to go after it. |
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| Yes it should be up in roughly 3-4h. Two imperial convertibles are right before it. The 60 has quite a few issues. Under dash is a mess. Holes not plugged in firewall. Figment issues. If you don't look over the car hard you will miss a lot. The 58 is a nicer car but modded quite a bit. I expect both to go for 30-40% more than they should based on bidders that fall in love with paint. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | This car is not an OEM D500 model, with or without a(ny) 4-barrel carburetors or dualie exhaust manifold
on it.
It had, in fact, a single exhaust pipe on it when it left the factory, along with its 361 c.i. engine.
And, it happened to be painted in all-white, with the "Neutral" (tan-ish) interior motif.
It is beautiful, now, but what IS it (.....now)?
Read the seller's puffery on this car very carefully.
Edited by d500neil 2015-01-16 8:18 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| Yes it was reported to bj that the car is being falsely advertised as a d500 and super d. Hopefully they clarify before starting. Comes up in 30-45 min |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6552
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Sold $150.000! |
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| I got outbid. Went to 130. Just couldn't justify. Car was beautiful. |
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Expert
Posts: 4110
Location: Connecticut | Car was nice. Not an original D500, but it was never stated that it was factory original. Car was an older (I believe it was done in the 90s) restoration that was driven in Sweden. Paint and body looked real nice. Steering wheel is painted, not recast. I didn't get to see the engine, as the hood was closed. I figured 125-150. Ron |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Oh, really?
For sale at auction: Lot #1106 - This Dodge Custom Royal D500 convertible has had a total frame-off restoration. Everything has been done, and it as nice under the car as on the outside. It also has the D500 option 2x4s carburetors, and the 383 engine runs like a dream.
Of COURSE; how silly of anyone to be misled, in any way, by this description of the car......
And, THEN...there is the slight disparity between the way that the colors/trim/engine/driveline
is presented, vis-a-vis the way that this 361/2-bbl carb/single exhaust pipe, all-white with
Neutral-color interior car....was being offered for sale.
How could ANY (prospective) buyer become upset to learn that this car is not what it would
appear to have been...regarding the way as was advertised and displayed, for sale?
And, let's not overlook the knowledge about the car's history/provenance that its seller certainly had, about it.
Edited by d500neil 2015-01-17 1:57 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | December of 2010 and it was bid up to $175,250 with no sale. Flash forward four years and one month and erase $25,250 on a sale price? I wonder if the seller was disappointed? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 673
Location: Malung, SWEDEN | This was a robbery, big time! No one can restore such a car for that money.
The value is 200K +
Hope the 57 Adventurer will do better tomorrow! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | I just missed the auction, I saw a glimps of $150,000 before the google chrome rubbish crashed
After I got it going again, there was a heck of a lot of early corvettes all going for around 100k +
Anyone understand 1/2 of he auction callers call? 
How does anyone talk that fast
I liked the blonde in the red dress :)
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6552
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | No change:
Lot #1106
1959 DODGE CUSTOM ROYAL SUPER D CONVERTIBLE
Auction Scottsdale 2015
Reserve NO RESERVE
Status Sold
Price $165,000.00
Lot 1106
Location Tent 7 N - 6
Year 1959
Make DODGE
Model CUSTOM ROYAL SUPER D
Style CONVERTIBLE
*Includes Buyer Commission
? ? ? ? ?
Details
VIN M352100580
Exterior Color TWO TONE BLUE
Interior Color TWO TONE BLUE
Cylinders 8
Engine Size 383
Transmission 3-SPEED AUTOMATIC
Description
For sale at auction: Lot #1106 - This Dodge Custom Royal D500 convertible has had a total frame-off restoration. Everything has been done, and it as nice under the car as on the outside. It also has the D500 option 2x4s carburetors, and the 383 engine runs like a dream.
Get Started Today
Follow Barrett-Jackson
? ? ? ? ?
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Expert
Posts: 1510
Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Just to set the stage first off I personally only know a handful of you people. Secondly i knowci may get bashed for saying this but i really dont care
1) do you really think if this car was done the way it wasbuilt originally it would of brought more
2) does it really matter how someone builds a car
3) seems like a lot of folks are crybaby complainers about things like this is it envy
4) do u really think you will find a car such as this that is equipped this way to put it back autheticlly
5) sometimes makes me really wonder when thr only people willing to put forth the effort on something this nice are people overseas or forpeople overseas
6) really puts me at a loss when "rare" ones end up going overseas because it seems like alot of youare either blind lazy or dumb
7) if you really think you could do a "better " job of preserving something do it quite bellyachin
Just had to get it out |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5051
| that commission hurts, 15k to the buyer has to suck... 150k for a D500 clone isn't that bad is it?
What did the 58 Christine Plymouth go for? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5051
| w.weiland - 2015-01-17 9:29 AM
Just to set the stage first off I personally only know a handful of you people. Secondly i knowci may get bashed for saying this but i really dont care
1) do you really think if this car was done the way it wasbuilt originally it would of brought more
2) does it really matter how someone builds a car
3) seems like a lot of folks are crybaby complainers about things like this is it envy
4) do u really think you will find a car such as this that is equipped this way to put it back autheticlly
5) sometimes makes me really wonder when thr only people willing to put forth the effort on something this nice are people overseas or forpeople overseas
6) really puts me at a loss when "rare" ones end up going overseas because it seems like alot of youare either blind lazy or dumb
7) if you really think you could do a "better " job of preserving something do it quite bellyachin
Just had to get it out
This is a D500 Clone, its a beautiful D500 Clone though.
1. What has that got to do with not being honest in a car sale?
2. I don't think anyone has a problem with the quality of the restore
3. Envy of paying 150k+ for something that isn't what you thought?
4. With enough money you can buy one
5. That's just a dumb statement
6. What? why would going overseas put you at a loss? its not your car or money?
7. What? See #2 and then see #1
My problem is, again there is talk of turning 58's into 59's, all kinds of "zaniness" and things not being represented correctly.
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Expert
Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | One other thing to keep in mind...there are NO known 59 Custom Royal ragtops known to survive today built with Super D500. So if you want one you can build one, buy one with Super D, or build a time travel machine. |
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| I feel I could have won the auction had it been marked and advertised properly. Now the car will sit in a warehouse and not be driven. I will buy it the next time it comes up for sale in 2-3 years. The car was falsely marketed, bj was told about it and did nothing. That's bs. They were making corrections on cars all night. We filmed the bidding to show them lying about the description. We have documentation showing we informed them. Including text messages from the seller that it was not a d500. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5051
| Figured Barrett Jackson just sells em as you say. Buyers beware at Barrett Jackson I guess. |
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Expert
Posts: 4110
Location: Connecticut | Since it's an auction, you have to listen carefully to what the auctioneer says and read the description carefully. If it doesn't say factory original, you should assume it's not. The seller had a copy of the IBM card on the dash. For someone with the knowledge to interpret the card, it was clear that this car was built up into a Super D. Folks have to do their homework. The only thing that bothered me was that when the car was displayed in the days leading up the the auction, the hood was never open (at least when I was there). I asked a security guard if I could look under the hood and he told me no. To assume that the car will just sit in a warehouse until the buyer is ready to sell is ridiculous, since you don't know who bought the car. This car was driven for a number of years before the seller decided to put it up for auction. I know wealthy collectors that will drop 200K+ on a resto, then drive the cars because they like them. Ron |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5051
| I don't think you can say "well you should have decoded that card we put on the dash, your loss man!". If you advertise it as D500 you have a responsibility for it to be a D500. Or else state a D500 clone. |
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Expert
Posts: 2647
Location: Minor Hill, TN | I wanted to see what the price was but the listing was removed . |
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Veteran
Posts: 245
| Im 100% on weilands line her this is a perfect restoration of a dodge in this days when someone restore a chevy or ford they ad on continental cits and fenderskirts and the extra dressup rockermouldings and that is ok i think we are playing with cars her and that should be fun we are not changing hart so we dont need to go for the corect bloodtype this car use to belong to rene cruger in iowa 20 years ago
JAN FRIDBERG |
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| The only people that saw the data info, were those that walked up to the car. All communication from Barrett Jackson was that it was a D500 or Super D500. If I brought up a dodge challenger and put T/A stripes on it, but it wasn't a T/A (a speciality order similar to D500), they would call it a recreation or clone. Any car that was sold at BJ that had a different motor than what came from the factory in order to claim a higher trim level was marked as a clone/recreation, except this car.
Not sure why there is an argument over the honesty of the listing. It's obvious that it was misleading on purpose to drive a higher price. Not that it should surprise anyone, just a shame. |
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Expert
Posts: 1510
Location: Lordstown, Ohio | Dont you think also, if your going to spend this kinda $$$ you would do your OWN homework like Mike did? One should never relie on someone else doing it for you? Unless your paying someone to do the research for you.
If i had this kinda of $$$ sitting around. I would of been into also. But i dont. I have to settle for my rusty Desoto convertible. Which im good with. One day it will be this nice AND it will be optioned out and possibly late model EFI and airride |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | the auction has been on for a week - im poor i dream of winning the lottery have been a car fan since age 5 (1959!)
love fw finned classics or any (duane eddy twanging ring of fire on oldies net radio) true genuine gm or ford classic.
love duseys cords auburns packards italian supercars...... i caught a glimse of the crl conv wow dozed off is it
worth it whether genuine to the last detail it looks orig smells runs handles like new it doesnt matter if you have that kind
coin.. i love you guys but sometimes your too correct for you own good! you might get it for 125. mike maybe not
2 years. hardly any fwl mopars... mopar muscle yes hemi cudas up the yin yang you want to talk correct listen to this -
3 GENUINE torino king cobras built - designed by larry shinoda same guy who designed or helped design the 1963
corvette stingray. there was a red one - IT HAS A KING COBRA NOSE but the rest well a tribute think it went for 62k.
how about a 70 gto judge conv..? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | did it sell? |
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Expert
Posts: 1622
Location: Seville, OH | I think there is a trend toward less concern with factory correctness. Quality of restoration whether it be a resto-mod, clone, original is what is interesting most buyers. Resto-mod early Corvettes are bringing big money, in many cases as much as an original. Lots of the buyers are older, have the means to pay, and know that 90% of the people they come in contact with won't have a clue what it is, and probably 30% will think its a 57 Chevy. But of course one should be honest in the description. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 673
Location: Malung, SWEDEN | More disaster! The Adventurer went for 180K + 10%
This is not good at all. |
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Expert
Posts: 4110
Location: Connecticut | Mike McCandless - 2015-01-17 3:39 PM The only people that saw the data info, were those that walked up to the car. All communication from Barrett Jackson was that it was a D500 or Super D500. Just curious...if you had won the auction and then read this thread and saw that the D500 had been added later, what would you have done ? Ron |
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Veteran
Posts: 245
| I had driven it and think that i have one of the best dodge 59 in the world but i can agre with you it is not nesesery to write on the paperwork that it is a d500 in the 1990 i try to buy this car from rene hi say it was a super d500 and sent pictures of the emblems to proof it but you could not se if that was real becaus the car had the fronthalf of frontclip cut of and the rear section was cut of in the topboot area i think someboudy made a coutch and the front pur up on the wall in a bar or something i hop the new owner can have fun with it anyway i guess he cant ride on the paperslip anyway but the car drives like new
JAN FRIDBERG |
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1959 Dodge - This one's gonna be pricey...
