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Extreme Veteran
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| Now this is not all about my 56 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer but it is something to think about. I am not looking for any answers at this time, this is just for thought.
Some time ago I put a set of Monroe Load Leveler Shocks on my 56 and experienced a quieter and more stable ride. I am satisfied with this at the moment but may do something different later on. My other car is not a F/L it is a 1971 Plymouth Scamp. It appears the car has had Monroe Air Max shocks for a very long time and they had nothing left to give, so...... I ordered a new set and worked my butt off getting the old ones off that were installed incorrectly. The spacer washers were installed on the bottom mount bolt, not were they were supposed to be on the top mount bolt. Installing them was easy. The air lines were a bit of a challenge but I persevered and won the battle. When I pressured the shocks up to 30 PSI it raised the back of the car, measured at the wheel well centerline, 1" The Caster on this car is, according to the service manual "Preferred Neg 1/2 degree. I cannot tell you how much the Caster would change toward the positive with the back end sagged down due to the condition of the old O.E. rear springs or how much it would change toward the Negative when the rear is jacked up with the Air Shock or New Springs. What I can tell you is, the steering improved considerably. The wandering was not all but just about eliminated. Now back to the 56. I had an alignment done by the oldest person in area that I could find after I installed the load levelers (Younger mechanics would not understand the old girl). He even adjusted the manual steering box from where I had it adjusted, Tightened it up a bit more. I don't have much wandering but from what I experienced by installing the Air Shocks on the 71 is why I am going to take another look at the 56 rear springs, shocks, etc.
Not the end of the story. My brand new Monroe Shocks, one of which has a bad weld and leaks air. Irritating, YES. I will find out Monday how fast the supplies can get me another set that will hold air. In the meantime I can still drive the car but have to pump the air pressure up about every 2 hours.
Del S |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | I hate air shocks and would never install them again, but during the time that I used them, I had really bad results with Monroes. Gabriel Hi-Jackers were much less prone to leaking and failing than the Monroes were.
Unlike '59-up cars, it's relatively easy to adjust the caster on your '56. You just need to shim the control arms. That same old mechanic should know how to do this and might even have some shims he can use to get it done. |
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Veteran
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Location: christchurch New Zealand | Likewise i hate air shocks, cheap nasty way out for bad springs. Most of my cars i have replaced with brand new rear springs- not rearced-i normally go heavy duty
with an extra leaf and use std HD shocks, keeps the ride height correct and gives exceptional ride and handling.
Geoff |
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | I found the 59 up cars with the cam bolts in the upper arm, easier to do caster /camber. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9673
Location: So. Cal | Easier to adjust, but harder to modify to get a lot more caster and still maintain a good camber setting. |
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Agreed, couldn't get more than 1 degree positive caster and still maintain camber settings on a 59 Dodge in the shop. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Just so I am not confused and to clarify a point. I am not for or against Air Shocks in this thread. My point was, with the addition of the Air Shocks and raising the back end of the car/s up the steering wandering was all but eliminated. Yes I agree new spring is a better way to go but, not at this time for me.
Del
 (Caster Explained 1.jpg)
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 Caster Explained 1.jpg (183KB - 64 downloads)
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Expert 5K+
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Location: So. Cal | Except raising your rear end should have reduced your + caster, which should make it less stable than before. Ideally, you would like around +2 degrees of caster. I suspect that you got a positive result from other factors like having the original shocks mounted improperly, causing some weird geometry issue. Or from just having a better controlled rear suspension - which does have a positive effect on the handling. I have found that the rear suspensions are typically the weak link in handling on our cars. Stiffening them up in a progressive manner makes a great improvement.
Another very likely possibility is that your alignment was adjusted with the car originally level. Now that it was sagging in the back, the alignment was off. Raising it up put the alignment back to where it should have been.
Edited by Powerflite 2023-06-13 4:39 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Agreed on all points. Another seldom detected issue is the front spring bushings wear and the rear of the car can become somewhat unstable, not uncommon on oe springs.
Edited by Shep 2023-06-13 4:49 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 353
| I do not agree with your thinking on Positive Caster. If you look at the picture above, taken for the 55-58 FSM and as described by Webster Dictionary, (the slight usually backward tilt from vertical of the axis of the steering mechanism of an automobile for giving directional stability to the front wheels). Meaning the the top of the Kingpin (above the spindle centerline) is tilted forward, tipping the bottom rearward. the greater the Negative caster, the better the straight forward directional stability becomes, however this effects the steering effort it requires to make a turn. I didn't work on the Alignment Rack for very long but I do remember this. The Negative numbers I quoted above are from my 55-58 FSM and from my 1971 FSM. Both suggest Negative Caster. And lifting the rear of the car will increase Negative caster. Prove me wrong.
Del
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Positive caster is desired for straight line stability, today's cars are all at least 3-4 positive, race cars even more. Negative caster does not aid in straight line stability. Imagine a motorcycle with negative caster. You can Google this issue for some in depth analysis. Positive caster in a non power steering vehicle creates addition steering effort when turning sharply, especially at low speeds. The suggestion of negative caster as you referenced, reduced steering effort especially in a non power steering vehicle. Look at this. https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/how-does-caster-affect-driving
Edited by Shep 2023-06-13 7:26 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 353
| Thanks for that article. That explains newer car steering technology but does not explain why Chrysler, in particular in 1956 would design in negative caster. Now going back to my car, a 1956 Dodge that has Kingpins, the addition of a shock absorber that did in fact pick the back of the car up by 3/4” did improve the steering and as stated all but eliminated the wandering. The 18” diameter steering wheel is a necessity for getting around a corner. I do have a complete power steering unit to go in one of these days and at that time I will have the alignment shop do another check. I don’t have the equipment in my shop to adjust/set caster/camber and a hundred bucks each time I run it through the shop makes me hesitate making a change to a perfectly good steering ride.
Again I agree that new springs are the best method of getting the car back to the original level.
Del |
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Every car in those days had close to 0 or negative caster, the suspension design limited the ability to go positive, that combined with tire design and most cars did not have power steering back then, lotta issues enter this equation. I struggled to get some pos caster in my 55, it had Coker radials, used shims in the lower arms, and the upper to get about 1 degree positive. We use Longacre caster/camber magnetic heads in our shop. Interesting discussion. 
Edited by Shep 2023-06-13 9:38 PM
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