The Forward Look Network | ||
| ||
354 Hemi Piston Size Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look Technical Discussions -> General Technical Discussion and Troubleshooting | Message format |
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Hello I just bought a 1956 354 Hemi. Block # is VT549-1972C. I got it seized 2 days ago. I started taking it apart and notice that there was no piston size only numbers. I got on google and tried looking for numbers and couldn't find any. Piston # is 1828970 X I am wondering if this engine has ever been rebuilt Thanks Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 3:42 PM | ||
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9905 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . 1828970 (or 1828 970) doesn't seem to be a valid PN for a Chrysler piston, certainly not one from 1956. As far as I can tell from the 1955-58 Mopar Parts list, 56 Chrysler piston PNs were 1643 2nn where nn ran from 17 to 28, e.g 1643 217 for a stock poly piston to a 1643 228 for a 0.060 oversized hemi (56-58ChryslerPistonPNs.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 56-58ChryslerPistonPNs.jpg (158KB - 293 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | Dave, you're not going to find a truck piston number in a passenger catalog. Also, the casting number could be a little off from the part number. If you are seeing those casting numbers without an additional .01 or .03 on it, then yes, they should be the original pistons for the motor. I believe that your 354 hemi could have been from 1956 or 1957. I suspect that it's from '57. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Odd that it has them in it but not in the book. Wonder if it is different between Canadian hemis and U.S. hemis Is there any idea how to get part numbers for the truck hemis for those years. Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 4:01 PM | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | Get a part number catalog for the dodge trucks. | ||
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9905 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Powerflite - 2021-01-20 12:45 PM Dave, you're not going to find a truck piston number in a passenger catalog. Also, the casting number could be a little off from the part number. How would I know that the engine is a truck engine? From the "VT" number? I did check 1828970 in the 1950 to 1965 Mopar Parts Interchange catalogue (which includes trucks) and nothing came up. Wouldn't an "18" PN imply 1958? UPDATE: Found this: Light Duty Trucks____________________________ These can be Hemi or Poly, some numbers were duplicated VT-334 ....... 1954 ....... 241 VT-334 ....... 1954 ....... 260 VT-336 ....... 1954 ....... 241 VT-338 ....... 1954 ....... 241 VT-338 ....... 1955 ....... 260 VT-350 ....... 1954 ....... 331 VT-434 ....... 1955-1956 .. 260 VT-436 ....... 1955-1956 .. 260 VT-444 ....... 1956 ....... 260 VT-448 ....... 1956 ....... 331 VT-448 ....... 1959 ....... 354 VT-534 ....... 1957 ....... 315 VT-536 ....... 1957 ....... 315 VT-538 ....... 1957 ....... 315 VT-544 ....... 1956 ....... 315 VT-548 ....... 1956 ....... 354 VT-549 ....... 1956 ....... 354 VT-550 ....... 1956 ....... 354 VT-576 ....... 1958 ....... 354 "The H.D. Dodge truck Hemi motors are way diifferent, 1/2 stem valves and so on, than the car engines are Make sure you know what you will have to change or replace to use the truck motor before decidning to use it The truck motors probally have better cranks and rods also along with solid lifters with adjustable rocker arms " REFERENCE: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1632267/f... Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-20 4:30 PM | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | I just remembered that I have a truck parts catalog for '57-'58. I had totally forgotten about it. Looking through it, I only see std size pistons for V8 motors with part numbers: 1752260 '57 D100-300, W100-400 (This is likely the 315 poly piston) 1752355 '57 D400-600 1843392 '58 D100-600 1818739 Heavy Duty Truck '57 D700-900 1843204 Heavy Duty Truck '58 D700-900 1752471 Export Low Compression 6.8:1 '57 D100-600 1843396 Export Low Compression 7.0:1 '58 D100-600 1818746 Export Low Compression 6.7:1 Heavy Duty Truck '57 D700-900 1843201 Export Low Compression 6.5:1 Heavy Duty Truck '58 D700-900 And I take back what I said about bore size. It looks like they sell overbore sizes with 1 part number higher. For instance: 1752260 Std 1752261 .005 O/S 1752262 .020 O/S 1752263 .040 O/S So I am not sure that your bore size is standard or not since I can't find your piston number. It seems your motor is indeed from '56. You'll need to get a '56 Truck part number catalog. Edited by Powerflite 2021-01-20 4:52 PM | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Thanks for the help. I will have to take it apart and get some measurement. I turned it a bit today from being seized but only goes one way. I will work on it and see if I can do a full rotation soon. Let transmission fluid work. I also have 1 other question. Did any of these truck come with Fire Power engines? The valve covers have Chrysler Fire Power on them. Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 5:09 PM | ||
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9905 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 1:43 PM I also have 1 other question. Did any of these truck come with Fire Power engines? The valve covers have Chrysler Fire Power on them. Probably not. From the website I linked above: "The smooth valve covers and 4 bolt manifolds are some of the positives to counter the negatives when building a truck motor". Therefore, you might have a car 354 with truck pistons *OR* a truck 354 with car valve covers. Does it have adjustable or non-adjustable rockers? Adjustable rockers look like these: Versus non-adjustable: Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-20 5:43 PM (ExampleNonAdjustableDoublerRockerHemiValveTrain.jpg) Attachments ---------------- ExampleNonAdjustableDoublerRockerHemiValveTrain.jpg (149KB - 291 downloads) | ||
Mopar1 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3034 Location: N.W. Fla. | What intake does it have? The truck hemi blocks are like the '54 short tail 331s and solid front heads. The heads probably have the fat sodium filled valves, just replace with car valves and guides. You'll want to replace the pistons anyway, they lo-C/R. | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | 56D500boy - 2021-01-20 1:24 PM "..... The truck motors probally have better cranks and rods also along with solid lifters with adjustable rocker arms " REFERENCE: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1632267/f... :) This information is incorrect. No truck hemi V8 motor ever came with adjustable rockers or solid lifters. They all used hydraulic lifters. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | They are non adjustable. Plus I see that the heads don't have the water outlets on them. No problems I can get the water outlet for truck motor from hotheads. This motor will be going in to a 1956 Fargo Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 6:38 PM | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | Then I hope you'll leave it looking mostly stock. That's a rare one. You don't need the water outlets when using the original water pump & intake. You can get a 4bbl intake from a '54 Chrysler if you would like to upgrade the power out of it. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Ya it is a 56 Fargo 1 ton with a 9 foot box on it. It is a rare truck. I am not sure how I want to do it. I would like to buy 4 barrel intake and carb and do the front end. But keep the stock cam. If I want it to sound nice. You can do it with mufflers these day. I am sure you can do a lot these days with these engines but I am not going to race it or put a big blower on it. I just want it to look better then it looks now. I may be rebuilding it. Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 8:29 PM | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | Sounds really cool. Post a picture of it if you have one. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | I keep trying and it keeps telling me no. Why because it is to big of a file. I have edited it about 4 times and it keeps saying it is 2 big of a file. Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-20 11:10 PM | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | The max size is 250 kb and it needs to be .jpg, not .jpeg. | ||
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9905 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 8:08 PM I keep trying and it keeps telling me no. Why because it is to big of a file. I have edited it about 4 times and it keeps saying it is too big of a file. Editing (as in cropping to make it look smaller) is not the same as resizing (which is what you need to do). If you are running a version of Windows, download and use Irfanview to resize your photos. I use it daily for posts with photos. 1024 x 768 is a good size (typically runs about 150 kB or so). My garage camera creates photos that are either 2592 x 1944 pixels if I have the flash "ON" or 5184 x 3888 (or so) with no flash. Irfanview doesn't care. I can import either (or any) size into Irfanview and resize to 1024 x 768 and save as a .jpg in a very few clicks of the mouse. https://www.irfanview.com/ More hints about uploading photos are in this thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=64340&... Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-21 1:42 PM | ||
57chizler |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3777 Location: NorCal | Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 11:28 AM Piston # is 1828970 X If you found that number inside the piston, it's a casting number not a part number. They aren't always the same. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | I have been trying to post photo of my truck. It keeps saying no even when I resize it. I will try again later. Not sure why it is 250kb. Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-21 2:41 PM | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | 57chizler - 2021-01-21 12:26 PM Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 11:28 AM Piston # is 1828970 X If you found that number inside the piston, it's a casting number not a part number. They aren't always the same. That number was sitting on top of the piston (Forum 1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Forum 1.jpg (142KB - 299 downloads) | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Asked for pic of truck (Forum 2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Forum 2.jpg (147KB - 294 downloads) | ||
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9905 Location: Lower Mainland BC | . Congrats on successfully posting your photos. Nice looking truck. Being a FARGO does that mean it or you are in/from Canada? Like this one from my home province of Saskatchewan? Edited by 56D500boy 2021-01-21 7:02 PM | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Yes I am from Manitoba | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | Looks like a great project. I can't tell for sure but your truck looks to have the same 6 lug wheels that mine has. The pistons you show are very low compression for a hemi motor. You will want to swap them out to get more compression. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Yes to getting better pistons. The engine is starting to turn over more today but not going all the way around. The numbers I got for the inner diameter of the bore was 3.9555 and outside diameter for the piston was 3.8730. Wish I could figure out the size of them. I guess I will continue to look at google and see what comes up. | ||
58coupe |
| ||
Expert Posts: 1740 Location: Alaska | Standard bore size for the 354 is 3.94. Where are you measuring 3.955 and 3.873? Cylinders were not bored .15 oversize so if that is below the ridge at the top of the cylinder then that is how much the bores are worn. If you are measuring the piston at the skirt it is smaller there than at the ring lands but it could also be very worn. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Thanks I used a digital caliper. It was at the top of the head. The piston was also measured there. | ||
56D500boy |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9905 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Bambamshere - 2021-01-21 7:12 PM Yes I am from Manitoba Sorry, I see that now. Hope that Covid isn't affecting you or your family. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | No we are all ok. Staying in and staying safe. I hope the same for you and all the families on here are safe from covid. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | 1 of the heads (Forum 10.jpg) (Forum 9.jpg) (Forum 11.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Forum 10.jpg (148KB - 298 downloads) Forum 9.jpg (147KB - 294 downloads) Forum 11.jpg (147KB - 284 downloads) | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | One of the biggest problems with these old motors is the valve springs were too weak. Over time, they have become weaker. So even if you have a good running motor, it doesn't take many miles of driving with ethanol mixed gasoline before your valves start to lose their seal to the heads. When you rebuild them, I highly recommend that you replace the springs with stronger ones from hot heads. You will likely have to replace all of the exhaust valves to get them into spec too. If you do, keep in mind that the replacement valves require different keepers too. You often can just reuse the intake valves if you like. Just saving you some headache. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Thank You. I think I will probably be rebuilding motor and heads | ||
Mopar1 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3034 Location: N.W. Fla. | Bambamshere - 2021-01-20 7:24 PM Where it's stuck it should be rebuilt. Egge makes cast pistons in the OEM car C/R of a nominal 9:1. Don't know if the truck engines used a lo-po cam with the lower comp pistons used in trucks. Bob at Hot Heads or Gary at Quality Engineered Components can advise on cam & the proper valve springs to use with the cam. You should mike the valve spring pockets to know how wide a spring you need. Do not deepen pocket for taller springs, casting is a bit thin there.. I would like to buy 4 barrel intake and carb and do the front end. But keep the stock cam. I may be rebuilding it. | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | I forgot to mention that the new springs require machining the pockets out - not deeper, but wider. It's just a little bit, but needs to be done. Most head rebuilding places are capable of doing this well, but you will need to check first. | ||
Mopar1 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3034 Location: N.W. Fla. | Powerflite - 2021-01-25 9:36 AM maybe, maybe not, just depends. Found ones that fit fine in my 331.I forgot to mention that the new springs require machining the pockets out - not deeper, but wider. It's just a little bit, but needs to be done. Most head rebuilding places are capable of doing this well, but you will need to check first. | ||
Powerflite |
| ||
Expert 5K+ Posts: 9672 Location: So. Cal | What was the original application for them George? The ones I am referring to are the springs I purchased from Hot Heads. Edited by Powerflite 2021-01-25 12:23 PM | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | I wish I could start working on the engine right now. The next couple of days at least are going to be -24*c (-11.2*f) day time highs and -40 at night. I will tare it down in a couple weeks. I have heat in garage but would cost a fortune to heat. I would still like to figure out those pistons and bores. See even if it is worth going any further. Edited by Bambamshere 2021-01-25 6:10 PM | ||
Mopar1 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3034 Location: N.W. Fla. | Powerflite - 2021-01-25 11:22 AM Don't know. Comp Cams dual springs. Valve seat pocket is 1.40" on mine and these are 1.38 with the right pressure ratings. Can't seem to find my old PAW catalog....What was the original application for them George? The ones I am referring to are the springs I purchased from Hot Heads. | ||
Mopar1 |
| ||
Expert Posts: 3034 Location: N.W. Fla. | comp cams #988 | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | So finally got the engine un stuck. I turns over real nice now. I put transmission fluid in it for a month and it turned over. I still need to measure the bore and pistons. I bought a bore gauge and a micrometer. | ||
Bambamshere |
| ||
Member Posts: 22 Location: Manitoba, Canada | Hello!! I figured out what the numbers on the piston were. Yesterday I went out to my garage and started working on engine again. I took the head off and gave the top of the piston a good cleaning. The number are 1826 070 not 1826970. I have another 354 Hemi here. It had .060 pistons in it. I took one of its pistons and it fit in to the cylinder. So it has .070 pistons in it. Egge goes up to a .080 piston on these engines. Guess should have cleaned the piston better | ||
Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] |
Search this forum Printer friendly version E-mail a link to this thread |
(Delete all cookies set by this site) | |