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Forward Look Technical Discussions -> Steering and Suspension | Message format |
ram300 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 363 | Anybody tell me what thickness and type of rubber the factory used for the cushions in the front of the torsion bars. I think I cut some out of rubber exhaust hanger strapping last time.....maybe someone is reproing them now ? Thanks Owen | ||
mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6502 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | https://www.moparmall.com/MoPar-1613388-torsion-bar-seals-p/806-003(x2)-_-825-023-.htm https://www.hiltopautoparts.com/product/nos-mopar-torsion-bar-rear-a... https://www.detroitmuscletechnologies.com/mopar-a-b-e-f-body-60-80-t... https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Mopar-1959-Torsion-bar-rear-anchor-seal... | ||
ram300 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 363 | Thanks but I was referring to the cushion that sits between the front of the torsion bar and the rear of the lower control arm to prevent clunking of the torsion bar. | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | you just need a round disc, fairly thick rubber, at least 1/8 inch flat round piece that fits in. | ||
StillOutThere |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Just a note that the round discs, which I do believe is what is asked about, were NOT originally part of the torsion suspension engineering. The 1957 cars didn't use them and they first appear in the parts books and in the cars for 1958. Maybe some late '57 cars got them? I don't know. George McKovich was the first to offer new ones for sale probably ten years ago. | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3779 Location: NorCal | . (Cushion.PNG) (Cushion_2.PNG) Attachments ---------------- Cushion.PNG (8KB - 315 downloads) Cushion_2.PNG (4KB - 285 downloads) | ||
Darryl T |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 429 Location: McCleary WA | StillOutThere - 2020-01-31 7:59 AM Just a note that the round discs, which I do believe is what is asked about, were NOT originally part of the torsion suspension engineering. The 1957 cars didn't use them and they first appear in the parts books and in the cars for 1958. Both of my '57 Dodges had them. | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | always seen them there... stops the bar from slamming into the back of the bolt they seems to sit with pressure.. (rubbercover.jpg) Attachments ---------------- rubbercover.jpg (210KB - 301 downloads) | ||
StillOutThere |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Okay, then, like I said, maybe (apparently) late '57 cars got them. So it was a "running change" during production. Goes on all the time in the auto industry. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7410 Location: northern germany | My cars didn't have them (60/61) and it is not shown in the FSM either. What are these supposed to do? They can't prevent noise. The T-bar are under tension and can't slide back/forth. That is impossible. The only thing that makes sense is a seal that keeps the grease (greasing the T-bar ends is a must) away from the rubber bushing. | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | i think it could possibly make noise, it must be forced in there a bit as you can see the impression the end of the bolt made on the hard rubber. | ||
Space Trukin Wagon |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 427 Location: Ohio | 1960fury - 2020-02-01 7:57 AM My cars didn't have them (60/61) and it is not shown in the FSM either. What are these supposed to do? They can't prevent noise. The T-bar are under tension and can't slide back/forth. That is impossible. The only thing that makes sense is a seal that keeps the grease (greasing the T-bar ends is a must) away from the rubber bushing. Same here with several 1960-61 cars that I have, none use that rubber bushing. Interesting, they do have a plastic plug that presses into the torsion bar rear opening to keep out dirt and other debris. I always thought that was a good idea and wondered why mopar didn’t continue to use the plastic plug on later models like the B and E bodies. | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3779 Location: NorCal | None of the parts books after '57 show the cushion. | ||
ram300 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 363 | My thinking was that when travelling along uneven surfaces and the lower control arm is moving around and released of the vehicle weight momentarily the tension on the torsion bar is somewhat less causing possible movement of the torsion bar and these supposedly cushion the blow/noise. My 2 bits worth..... | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7410 Location: northern germany | ram300 - 2020-02-01 2:32 PM My thinking was that when travelling along uneven surfaces and the lower control arm is moving around and released of the vehicle weight momentarily the tension on the torsion bar is somewhat less causing possible movement of the torsion bar and these supposedly cushion the blow/noise. My 2 bits worth..... No | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3779 Location: NorCal | Even with the car airborne, the T-bar is under tension enough that the bar isn't going to slap the socket. I'm thinking it was used only in '57 and then deemed unnecessary. Edited by 57chizler 2020-02-02 4:33 PM | ||
ram300 |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 363 | "No" The parts book refers to it as a cushion. Meaning of cushion "something providing support or protection against impact". | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | it may have been the engineers thought that it could hit or shift somehow and damage a torsion bar. They quickly found out any damage at all could snap a torsion bar. Probably just a precaution. Remember the 57's were 58's... no time to road test much. | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | it may have been the engineers thought that it could hit or shift somehow and damage a torsion bar. They quickly found out any damage at all could snap a torsion bar. Probably just a precaution. Remember the 57's were 58's... no time to road test much. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7410 Location: northern germany | ram300 - 2020-02-02 5:01 PM "No" The parts book refers to it as a cushion. Meaning of cushion "something providing support or protection against impact". And they called fins stabilizers. Anyway, anybody with the SLIGHTEST technical/physical understanding knows, the T-bars under tension can't hit the bolt. If (?) the bar shifts or slides it happens VERY slowly and that can't produce any noises. Lets falsely assume t-Bars are not under tension when a car gets airborn, what would make the bars hit the anchor bolt? Nothing. Only under braking the bars would have the tendency to move forward and you can't brake with the front wheels off the ground. Anyway, the fact that these useless "cushions" were discontinued is all we need to know. Edited by 1960fury 2020-02-03 7:44 AM | ||
Space Trukin Wagon |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 427 Location: Ohio | Space Trukin Wagon - 2020-02-01 12:17 PM 1960fury - 2020-02-01 7:57 AM My cars didn't have them (60/61) and it is not shown in the FSM either. What are these supposed to do? They can't prevent noise. The T-bar are under tension and can't slide back/forth. That is impossible. The only thing that makes sense is a seal that keeps the grease (greasing the T-bar ends is a must) away from the rubber bushing. Same here with several 1960-61 cars that I have, none use that rubber bushing. Interesting, they do have a plastic plug that presses into the torsion bar rear opening to keep out dirt and other debris. I always thought that was a good idea and wondered why mopar didn’t continue to use the plastic plug on later models like the B and E bodies. For Reference, here's a picture of the "cap plug" installed by the factory on the rear side of torsion bar anchor. (1961 model) (Torsion Bar_Cap.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Torsion Bar_Cap.jpg (242KB - 297 downloads) | ||
miquelonbrad |
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Expert Posts: 1737 Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Isn't that "cushion" actually the rubber seal that was initially installed in the end of the bar...and that was removed part way into the 1957 production year by the bean counters, because it cost a few cents...and then the cars started having bars rusting and breaking on the ends, so Chrysler started using the seals again? I remember reading something about this in a book a few years ago. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7410 Location: northern germany | miquelonbrad - 2020-02-05 6:04 AM Isn't that "cushion" actually the rubber seal that was initially installed in the end of the bar...and that was removed part way into the 1957 production year by the bean counters, because it cost a few cents...and then the cars started having bars rusting and breaking on the ends, so Chrysler started using the seals again? I remember reading something about this in a book a few years ago. Water can't reach the torsion bar from the anchor-bolt side, so that "cushion" can't seal out any water. As I wrote before, it would only make sense as as seal to keep the grease from the sway bar end away from the rubber bushing. | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13054 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The fsm informs that the plasitc seals "cap plugs" shall be mounted in the rear end of the torsion bar anchor. This is from the '60 manual, so there was the front anchor seal and the rear anchor seal. Both are ment to avoid moist and dust to enter - there shold be grease behind/in the seals as well. | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3779 Location: NorCal | I'm thinking that a round plug/seal in a hex hole isn't gonna "seal" much. | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7410 Location: northern germany | Right, but isn't there a transition from hex to round? The used OE seal or "cushion" in the pic above doesn't look as if it spent 60 years in a hex-shaped hole. | ||
wizard |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Posts: 13054 Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Yes, Sid, that's correct, there is a transition from hex to round - I have both my plastic seals intact. Normally, I always go back to the fsm and MoPar documentations in case of doubt, but in this case, the '60 fsm shows a picture of an rear anchor that is hexagonal all the way through - that is NOT the case, at least for '60. Clearly they re-used a picture of the early type of torsion bar anchor. Perhaps, with this, we can draw the conclusion that the "cushion rubbers" was nothing more than a seal that didn't work very well so MoPar changed the design? | ||
1960fury |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7410 Location: northern germany | Maybe, but if I ever replace a lower bushing again, or pull a t-bar, I think about adding a seal now. | ||
Cmangeot |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 531 Location: Park Hills, KY | Good timing. My front end is apart. Took out torsion bars this morning. 58 Plymouth. No rubber seal on either bar in lower control arm. Should I put them back? | ||
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