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Member
Posts: 21
| Hello,
My name is Pau, and I'm from Tarragona, in Catalonia (Spain), i've recently bought a 58 Plymouth which was my dream car, I couldn't find it in Spain, so i finally decided to import one from the USA.
In 6-8 weeks it seems I'll have it at home (its going to be a long wait) but meanwhile I would like to ask you some questions I've got about the car, I know many things about european classic cars, but not about american ones really
Well, first of all, and as i've written to you in my title, my car is a 1958 Plymouth Plaza Silver Special, it seems to have no power steering, no radio and no power brakes but it is a V8 and i don't know what exact V8 model is it, I'd love to know this. It's also got push button transmition, which i also don't know which one it is, i've seen ones with 3 buttons and others with 5, my one has 5 but i don't know how it works, N means neutral, D means drive, R means backwards and it then has a 1 and a 2, what does this mean? When or how sould i use them? I've always driven manual stickshift in my cars.
I post you a photo of the engine if you can tell me what kind of engine it is, hp, cubic inch, etc...:
[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/f27lvm.jpg[/IMG]
I'll post you more pics from the car this friday because i'll be sent a few more.
What more can you tell me about this car? Is it difficult to find parts, are they new or old parts? Would it be easy or expensive to put power brakes and power steering to it? I don't know, anything you can tell me about it is going to be great help to me!
Thanks a lot!
Greetings from Catalonia!
Pau
PD: I'm sorry if i've made mistakes writing in english or if i've said something wrong, my language is Catalan not english but i do my best.
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Expert
Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | Greetings and welcome to the forum - glad to have you aboard.
The engine looks like a 318 CID which was very comon in 1958 rated at 230 HP I believe with a 2 barrel carburetor. Your transmission is a Torqueflite 3 speed automatic. The "1" button is forward low gear and the car will not shift out of low while this button is pushed in. It's like first gear on a manual transmission. The "2" button is for forward second gear. When this button is pushed, the transmission starts out in first and then shifts automatically into second and it will hold in second gear. "D" is for normal forward driving and the transmission will start in first gear, shift into second gear automatically and then will shift into third gear automatically. You can manually shift the transmission by starting in "1" then when you get up to speed, push the "2" button and it will shift into second, then when you get up to speed, push the "D" button and it will shift into DRIVE or HIGH or THIRD whatever you want to call it - it's the final forward gear. Manually shifting the automatic is commonly used in drag racing when you want to hold a gear longer than letting the transmission shift automatically in DRIVE. When slowing down, the transmission will downshift automatically all the way to FIRST when you reach a standstill. Again, you can manually downshift as well by pushing the buttons but you definitely don't want to downshift too early while the engine is at high RPMs or you'll over-rev the engine and possibly do damage. Just think of it as driving a manual transmission car only pushing buttons instead of moving a lever and you'll be OK.
Of course a radio is no problem to find and install. Power steering and power brakes can be installed but they would be somewhat expensive and time consuming. Your car won't be that hard to drive without power steering and power brakes. Try it first and then if you feel the need to add power steering or power brakes, do it then. Remember, brakes on these cars back then were drum brakes and not disc brakes so braking is going to be inferior, not as good, than with disc brakes. Parts are relatively easy to find for this car as a lot of Chrysler built cars used some of the same mechanical parts but not all so it's best to be specific when you inquire about something for your car. Body and interior parts are going to be specific to your car for the most part but sometimes door handles, lock buttons, armrests, and moldings around the windshield and doors may interchange with other Chrysler products which are called MoPars quite often.
Best of success to you with your new Plymouth and rest assured, you came to the right place on this forum with your questions.
Edited by Viper Guy 2016-03-21 9:56 PM
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Location: Minor Hill, TN | Do not worry about it you will learn more english |
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Location: Georgia | Welcome to the forum, Pau. Post lots of photos when she makes it home.
Pete |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
Location: London, England | Hi! I work for a company based in Barcelona - how far are you from the city? I get over there quite often so if you need parts or help I may be able to help you. I have some spares from my '57 Plymouth which is very similar to your car. Good luck! |
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Location: The Mile High City | Welcome, Pau! Looking forward to seeing some pictures of your Silver Special. The Silver Specials are wonderful cars, and rarely seen today!
Mike |
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Member
Posts: 21
| Thanks A LOT for your answers and welcome to me, i'm also proud of being writing here to you and sharing this wonderful Fordward Look world!
Viper Guy:
Thanks a lot for you super complete answer!!!!
You've perfectly explained me things I didn't know, I guess you're right about the 318 CID 230HP 2barrel, this is great to know.
About the transmition "Torqueflite 3 speed automatic", perfect, i knew they had "names" and all this, but i wasn't sure at all of it. Also very interesting its way to work even being an automatic one, quite similar to a manual one, it looks extremely easy in use! I won't be drag racing my car (police is very strict with this things en Europe hahaha) but its good to know how to make a good use of it, so i can keep and take the best care i can of the car.
I've been talking to the person which is doing all the work of buying the car for me and taking it here and he'll try to get the spare parts I need, like the radio, hubcaps... they're very kind.
Thanks a lot again for your information, this'll be great help to me!
imfinlay:
Its interesting that you work for a Catalan company! I'm exactly at 100km from Barcelona (1hour) by car, it would be great to find and share opinions someday, or write and talk about parts, the cars itselves, etc... Its always good help and interesting! As they say, today there are no distances!
Lancer Mike:
Thanks a lot Mike, yes i've read they're quite rare, but it is just casual that i've bought it, i just was looking for a 58 Plymouth (didn't mind which one, if i'd wanted to choose the exact version it would have been very difficult i guess), which for a 21 year old person in Spain is even more rare hahaha But after many years wishing it i've got one!
1961plymouthfury and SavoyPlaza:
Hahaha yes, i guess i'l learn more, in fact i studied English for many months in Ireland a few years ago and got some important "cambridge titles" (study titles) here in Spain, but i don't practice it a lot since i don't go there, i understand everything and i can talk quite well but, it can always be better, waaaay better! About the photos, i promise you lots of them, i love to make pictures of everything when i restore a car, so i can always see the "before and after" and how everything has been made, more over in this Plymouth which is going to be my tresaure!
I own another Chrysler Corporation car, not rally a fordward look one, but its a 1969 Dodge Dart GT 3700, its the spanish version of the '64 american Dodge, with an sporty interior, manual gearbox, stabilizer bars, disc brakes, air contidioning, wooden dash with lots of instruments... i'll show you also pictures of it, i think you'll like it, its an american based european old sportscar with 4 door, very rare hahaha.
Greetings from Catalonia, and thanks a lot again to all of you!
Pau Font |
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Member
Posts: 21
| This is the exact car i've bought, sorry for the bas quality, as i told you, this friday i'll have more photos of it, by the way, i see the photos don't apear in the post, just the link, i use to post photos to other forums this way and they're seen with no problem, do i have to do it in a different way here?
[IMG]http://i67.tinypic.com/2zodrpc.jpg[/IMG]
And this is my Slant-6 Dodge:
In Barcelona in a very important classic car meeting:
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/2h6vq7t.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/11jp6hv.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i68.tinypic.com/1yl63b.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/mtwex2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i63.tinypic.com/2chrfaw.jpg[/IMG]
Hope you can see them, if you can't please tell me, i'll try something so you can!
Pau
Edited by Paufont 2016-03-22 6:32 PM
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | Most came up blank. Was able to see one and reposted it here....
Don't think I've ever seen that particular side trim before.
Edited by jimntempe 2016-03-22 8:17 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Awesome! And with a V8 - bonus!  |
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Location: CA | That trim is standard on Silver Specials, optional on the other low level cars. It was part of "the package," so were the forward look scripts on the sides in lieu of Plaza scripts. |
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Posts: 2637
Location: Minor Hill, TN | My last 2 forward look mopars had no power steering and no power brakes. 1 was a 1957 plymouth ( totaled in 1987) and a 1961 fury . My 3rd forward look 1961 fury is currently under restoration. Here are the cars . If you want to know what happened to my last '61 PM me and I will tell you. The 2nd photo was my 1st forward look mopar the 1st photo was my 2nd and the last 2 is my 3rd forward look 1 is before I started the restoration and the last is during. My current '61 is a power steering power brake car
Edited by 1961plymouthfury 2016-03-22 9:28 PM
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Member
Posts: 21
| Thanks for your answers, nice photos!!! 
Well i've got some more photos of the car going to L.A. to be sent home from there!!
[img]http://i68.tinypic.com/2gtptu9.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i63.tinypic.com/9szf5k.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i68.tinypic.com/dmu2yq.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i64.tinypic.com/jhsn05.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i66.tinypic.com/311np0j.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i68.tinypic.com/jj0mkh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i68.tinypic.com/16ih75c.jpg[/img]
I've been reading about the car and i'm always finding information and specs from the "Fury" versions, not really interesting to me as i don't own a Fury (by now at least hahaha)
Considering it is a Poly V8 engine 318 2 barrel carburetor with 3 speed AT, how fast would my car theorically be? I can't find its top speed written anywhere so I have no idea if its a fast or a slow car hahaha I don't really care but as it will still be a long time since i get the car home and finish it it would be nice to know as much things as possible.
Can't wait to have it home!!!!
Pau |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | 
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Congratulations!
My grandfather had a basically identical one in (apparently) 1963. I asked my grandmother about it. It must not have left much of an impression. She thought it was a Chevy, lol! oh well
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Expert
Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | I've been reading about the car and i'm always finding information and specs from the "Fury" versions, not really interesting to me as i don't own a Fury (by now at least hahaha)
Considering it is a Poly V8 engine 318 2 barrel carburetor with 3 speed AT, how fast would my car theorically be? I can't find its top speed written anywhere so I have no idea if its a fast or a slow car hahaha I don't really care but as it will still be a long time since i get the car home and finish it it would be nice to know as much things as possible.
Can't wait to have it home!!!!
Reply:
Although your car is not a rocket ship, it would hold it's own against the '58 Fords and Chevrolets with their standard V8 engines. My guess is that your car would do the quarter mile drag race in the high 16's to mid 17's at somewhere around 80 MPH. 0 - 60 MPH would be around 10 seconds - maybe slightly under. These numbers are based on my experience with a 303 CID '56 Fury with a 3 speed manual I owned way back when and it turned in the low 16's. It also had dual exhaust, a 4 barrel carburetor, and higher compression so it theoretically would be a little faster. Top speed of your car would be about 110 MPH.
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Location: The Mile High City | Wow! Those travel pictures show some gorgeous mountain scenery. Where were those taken? |
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Member
Posts: 21
| Hello everyone!
Thanks a lot 57burb to make possible my images to be seen by all of us!!!
It really seems your grandfather also had an identical Silver Special, wonderful picture!!! Your grandfather had good taste in cars!
The same that happened to your grandmother thinking it was a Chevrolet is quite common, I own a '69 Spanish Dodge and even it has chromed letters on the hood saying "DODGE", my grandmother said it was a Cadillac.... hahahaha They just don't know much about cars, but that's just fine, they use to be at the same time the most proud of their grandchildren and their cars, and thats us!
Viper Guy, thanks a lot for sharing your information with me, now i have an idea of how my car will be, I have to say it isn't really bad for this car, at least that's what it seems to me, maybe i'm comparing it with classic european cars, they don't use to be very powerful or fast, those old Mercedes etc... God... They were well built but... at the same time, they were slow underpowered machines....
Lancer Mike, the pictures were taken in Nevada, the place where the car is being loaded is where its owner lives in the mountains I think it was near "Reno (Nevada)" i'm not sure, then it went across the desert and to Los Angeles where the car is right now waiting for the moment to get on the ship and come to Catalonia!!! 
When they sent those photos to me I really got very nervous, i wanted to have the car home so badly hahaha (i do still want!!!)
I'll keep you writing everything I'll know about the car until it arrives home, and then all the restorarion!
Greetings from Catalonia!!!
Pau |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7808
Location: Williams California | Lancer Mike - 2016-04-06 7:00 PM
Wow! Those travel pictures show some gorgeous mountain scenery. Where were those taken?
That scenery sure looks like just outside of Bishop, Ca. near the Nevada border.
---John |
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Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Yes the pics look like some of those taken by our late lamented Neil, rest his soul, that he posted on some of his drives around his home stomping grounds... beautiful!
Pau, your English is excellent! 99% of Americans can't speak another language so well!
Hope you enjoy the car, it looks very solid, and seems like it will be going to a good home! The Silver Special was a Spring advertising campaign designed to add a few cosmetic enhancements with an appealing upgrade of V8 and automatic, the 230 cu in flathead 6 and 3 spd manual were normally standard.
BTW the best way to drive a US automatic is to put it in "D" and let it up shift and downshift automatically for itself, that was the whole intention behind an automatic. They were not meant to be regularly driven by sequentially pushing "1" then "2" then "D", or the opposite when slowing down. Enjoy! |
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Location: London, England | Pau, I have some spare parts which I can easily bring to BCN. PM me if you need anything, I'll see what I have. |
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Member
Posts: 21
| Hello everyone!
Thanks Firedome, here young people use to be able so speak some diferent languages, I speak Catalan daily, sometimes Spanish, English and French, as a kid it didn't seem to me very useful to know all this languages, why to study so hard for something i thought i would never use..... But now... I'm here talking to you about my "new" car and being able to understand you, if i knew no English... I wouldn't have never been able to buy this car, so, i guess it has been VERY important hahaha
Didn't know the Silver Special was a Spring advertising campain model! Thanks a lot for this information!! 
About driving the car, i'll sure use it in "D" position and let it shift by itself, if i want to drive a manual car i have some of them to do that, i'll enjoy it as an automatic one I really wanted to own a "push button" automatic!
Imfinlay, i'll tell you something when the car arrives home, it'll be by the last days of May i guess, then i'll be able to see every tiny thing missing or in bad condition in it and i'll tell you, thanks a lot!
Thank you again to everyone of you for all the comments here, you're great help!!!!
Pau |
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Expert
Posts: 2637
Location: Minor Hill, TN | Yes its a poly 318 the last 1 had a 4bl and the current 1 has a 2bl but I plan to put a 4bl later on. I hope to find a 4bl manafold from another poly 318 . I for got to mention the current car has added on AC. |
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Member
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| Well...
I still haven't got my car home, after a long voyage it finally arrived to Barcelona the last 24th of June, it seems now we'll be able to pick the car the next Tuesday and bring it finally home...
It has finally cost me a little bit more than expected due to many different taxes when it has arrived here...  But in the end... What counts is that the car is finally here waiting for me to take care of it, and completely restore it!
Even without having it home i've bought a "present" for it, here's something my car wasn't equiped with:
[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/nnuq93.jpg[/IMG]
I've bought it in USA and sent it also to Spain... God how expensive does it get sending things here...  But my car deserves it.
I'll post you some photos of my wonderful car next Tuesday if everything goes well!
Pau |
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Member
Posts: 21
| Well... My desired automobile is finally home!!
It arrived here at 01:00h, late at night... I'd been waiting for the truck to bring it here from Barcelona since 16:30h in the afternoon and it finally arrived so late...
But this wasn't the only problem, they had also smashed it a bit in one side and bend a molding and the fender.... :x
But well... After this little damages, having paid more than I was told and some few problems... I must tell you that I'm happy, I'm very happy because my car is finally here and it has been worth all the effort!
I have to thank my boss and mates were I work to allow me having the car in the garage where I work, so its easier for me to restore it as i'm allowed to have all the tools and space all the time which is great help.
Let me finally post you some photos of my proud Plymouth!! :D
[img]http://i63.tinypic.com/9h6ykw.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i67.tinypic.com/dc7qsm.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i64.tinypic.com/14m44dk.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i63.tinypic.com/333blet.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i63.tinypic.com/2lxe78i.jpg[/img]
I wanted to ask you by the way some other things...
What kind of oil does the engine use? 20w50? I don't know if you call the oils in a different way in USA.
What kind of fluid does the Torqueflite use? I see it has a brown/red very clean and smelly kind of oil, but its not the same we use here in manual gearboxes, what is it exactily, where could I find it?
About the Torqueflite fluid level in the "iron stick to mesure the level" (don't know the word for it in english), the level is higher than the "TOP" signal, but it says written in the "stick" that i have to measure with the engine running, iddling, that's what it says, is it correct?? It sounds so strange to me!!
I need also need "contact breaker" for it, they're not in good condition, i don't know where to get some ones for my engine, as well as condensers.
It seems i'll also need 2 rear lights (they're a little cracked) and... many other things, i hope you could help me find all this things but not very fast as I'm still paying the car right now.
By now, the owner said it wasnt a runner as it hadn't been working since the 80's or something like that, i've put oil into the cylinders and have removed the valve covers and put oil everywhere, after a while and with not a lot of effort the engine turns, hope that healthy, but i'll be filling the cylinders now with diesel every day so the piston rings get cleaned and everything runs smoother before trying to make it turn with the starter engine.
Meanwhile i'll try to "polish" the contacts of the "contact breakers" to try to start her up before i get a new ones...
Well, i'll keep posting everything about the car, thanks a lot friends!
Pau |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Hi Pau! Congratulations!
Sorry about the dent but that should come out okay.
The oil weight "20w50" would be called the same thing in the United States.
Torqueflites aren't picky about what transmission fluid you use. Some people say to use Type F (now called FA) if you can find it, but the latest Dexron version (Dexron VI) also works fine.
The transmission "iron stick to measure the level" is called the dipstick! It's not unusual for the fluid level to be higher than the 'TOP' mark on the stick when it is parked. It may sound strange, but it is correct that the fluid needs to be measured with the engine running and the transmission fluid at a normal operating temperature.
Your term "contact breaker" is what we call "points" here in the US. Also you used the word condenser, which is correct, but it might also be called a capacitor.
It's a good idea you have about lubricating the cylinders and turning the engine over several times before attempting to start it. Be sure to change the oil before starting it too, in case some of that sludge has made it down to the crankcase. If it turns over easily, there's a good chance it will be a good running engine.
Good luck!
Danny
Edited by 57burb 2016-07-14 4:54 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | Greetings again Pau and glad to see your "new" car has arrived. I suggest that if at all possible, and if you don't already have one, get a 1958 Plymouth service manual. These are sometimes available on eBay and maybe even a member here has one you can get from them. Lot's of useful information in these manuals.
Good luck and please keep us posted with your progress.
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Member
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| Thanks a lot for your answer and for checking the pictures so we can all see them!!
I also wanted to thank you by the way for correcting me about all I didn't know how to call in a proper way!
So i'll be using 20w50 oil for the engine if that is correct, and Type F, or FA or Dexron VI, hope i'll be able to find them here, we don't use to have cars that need this kind of fluids here...
Thanks also to explain me how to mesure the level of the transmission fluid!!
And about the points and capacitor, do you have any brand or number to identify them for the Poly V8 distributor? I guess I'll be able to buy them on ebay or maybe in an auto-parts shop here but it would be rare...
I have now diesel into the cylinders and for the first time i've tried to make the engine turn using the starter engine, it seems to turn nicely but while turning there's a "point" in the circular movement of the crankshaft that I don't like, like if it hits something... In an inline 4 cylinder which i'm used to it could be the "PMS" (when the first cylinder is at the top), but I don't really know if its normal in a V8, hope it won't be nothing important, as it would be a problem...
I'll try to get all the diesel out the cylinders tomorrow and i'll buy new oil for the engine as well as new coolant fluid, but i guess i'll also need the poins to start her up.
I guess getting a service manual for my car would be great help, i'll have to look on the internet and see if i find something, or if someone has one to sell and send to spain...
Thanks a lot for all your info and help friends, it's always a pleasure! I'll keep posting everything!!!
Pau |
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Member
Posts: 21
| Well...
I'm trying to get an oil filter and the new points for being able to start the engine, I've asked some shops here but it seems I won't be lucky... I'll have to them in Ebay maybe....
But I have a question, for the same reason i'm changing oil and filter to the engine, i should do the same to the Torqueflite, i've read somewhere it has also a filter, i've been looking at the transmission and haven't seen anything... Where is it? Is it removing the "cover" under it? As i haven't seen any screw to drain it... And what about filling it again? Or the capacity of fluid to put in it??
If someone could answer me this or explain it better it would be great help, this kind of transmissions are not common here...
Thanks!!
Pau |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| do you have a scope? If its "hitting" something you might have some corrosion on a cylinder?
There is a lot of manuals on the car, fortunately the engine is easy to work on. old school.
I'm paranoid, I usually pull the heads see what I really have in there. I do have a lighted USB scope wire that I use but its kind of a pain to use. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7808
Location: Williams California | Paufont - 2016-07-18 5:01 AM
Well...
I'm trying to get an oil filter and the new points for being able to start the engine, I've asked some shops here but it seems I won't be lucky... I'll have to them in Ebay maybe....
But I have a question, for the same reason i'm changing oil and filter to the engine, i should do the same to the Torqueflite, i've read somewhere it has also a filter, i've been looking at the transmission and haven't seen anything... Where is it? Is it removing the "cover" under it? As i haven't seen any screw to drain it... And what about filling it again? Or the capacity of fluid to put in it??
If someone could answer me this or explain it better it would be great help, this kind of transmissions are not common here...
Thanks!!
Pau
Hi Pau,
There is just a screen to filter the fluid, you will see it once the pan is off the trans. This can be cleaned with solvent and re-used. To drain the old fluid, simply undo the large nut at the base of the filler tube. There is also a drain plug on the torque converter, you may need to rotate the engine to get down to the bottom, for best results. |
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| Mikes2nd, I don't have a scope... but It seems to be nothing wrong with the engine... I'll keep looking and testing it and try to see something... Without proper tools we sometimes are unable to do a good job...
I downloaded a manual which i'll take to the local print to get it printed like a book, i think it'll be great help to me!
I don't think you're paranoid, i'd do the same, but I'm from Catalonia and the car is also here, as this cars were never sold here there are no spare parts, i have to boy and bring them from the USA and it gets VERY expensive considering i have to restore the whole car, so, if i can avoid pulling the heads out... I'll avoid that... I usually do it when i restore classic european cars, but there's plenty of cheap spare parts for them here, so.. its diferent i guess...
big m, Thanks a lot for your answer, i'll take the pan off the trans tomorrow and see what i have in there and also the torque converter!
Thanks a lot for your help, i'd never finish asking you things, i'm sorry about that, but cars here use to be quite diferent and i need to now more to be able to work properly with my Plymouth.
Pau |
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Member
Posts: 21
| I've tried to start her up today,
I've not been what we could say "lucky".... I changed the oil, and oil filter, and cleaned everything under the head covers, the points were in bad shape but there isn't spark... I need to buy some new points and capacitors to have them here as I can't find them here for sale, this cars weren't here back then and even less nowadays. Could you tell me any brand or reference of this parts so i can buy them online somewhere??? That would be great help.
Another problem is a bad sound the engine makes when it turns, here's a video so you can hear it... What do you think??
https://youtu.be/SHXhCDmrEmg
Pau |
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Expert
Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | Good evening Pau,
The sound when trying to start the engine is not what I can put my finger on. It doesn't sound good but may not be as bad as it sounds. Remove all belts so your generator, etc. are not included as resistance and noise. You will be able to determine if there is an engine problem once it starts and is running. If there are loud clunking or scraping/screaming/screeching noises, those are not good signs and the engine should be shut off immediately. Then start looking for resistances by turning the engine over by hand with a large bar and socket on the crankshaft bolt. Do this with the spark plugs removed so you don't run into compression within the cylinders. You will be able to feel and possibly hear what may be blocking the engine from turning freely. Others on this forum may have other suggestions that may be helpful as well.
Good luck!
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1958 Plymouth Plaza Silver Special V8
