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| my MC to junction block brake line on my 60 plymouth is bigger at the junction block than at the MC, the brake line seems to be spliced into a larger line maybe 4 inches from the junction block , is this normal, brakes are excelent, pedal is hard no problems, now my 61 plymouth has same size MC to junction block brake line, the brakes have always sucked, never have gotten a hard pedal, always mushy, no mater what i do , question should the main brake line from the MC to the junction block, be, look like the brake line on my 1960 plymouth, if this is correct and proper MC to junction block line thats on my 60 plymouth where can i purchase one, |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | The line from the mc to the block is bigger
Its 1/4 inch compared to 3/16 for the rest
At the juntion block end, mine has a sleeve that goes over the end (for about 3 inches) which is there to stop the line fracturing there (I think) and (I think) its there because the block is mounted to the sub frame (that can move a little) and the pipe is clipped to the body
I think its basically there to make any movement because of the flexing between body and frame happen along the leanth of the line and not at the end
As for getting one, any mechanics shop can make it for you or you can make it yourself, you just need a double flaring tool and relatively strong hands to bend the pipe
Not sure what its called in the US, but here its called bundy tube and is readilly available at any parts supplier and its cheap
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| okay, I understand, so its very important for a single pot MC, possible weak spot, makes sense. well here goes day 3 on bleeding my brakes on my 61, so far the hardest pedal iv gotten, is if I lock all wheels, high firm pedal, but as soon as I ajust , I lose the pedal, always been giving me fits, new MC, almost new WC, iv tried all methods, iv got new speed bleeder this time, they work best after most of the air is out, so today, I will again lock the brake drums , but instead of being gentle to get my best pedal by just lighty pressing the very top of the MC, today after I gain a good solid pedal I will try and just push through the MC, very frustrating because, I have same system on my 60, same, and my 60 is perfect, high, hard pedal, I was kinda hoping the MC to junction block line was the devil, thinking that the bundy part was there and larger to help force the pressure on the lines, but that has no effect, the last strange thing is the right side bottom WC, that WC has a smaller bleeder screw since new, threaded part of bleeder screw, I know this now because my speed bleeder for that one WC does not thread all the way down like the others, I have checked it, it closes tight and doesn't leak, and does open to bleed, other than the big mopars with 2 WC on front drums, did the small mopars for 60,61 also have 2 WC on the front, I know the MC is 1' compared to 1 1/8 for the bigger mopars, would the WC be also smaller on the 1' MC im grabbing a straws at this point, |
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| <p>i checked on rock auto, the smaller 60/61 mopars did not use the 2 WC on front set up, so that rules out that. im realy leaning to the main line from the MC to junction block, it makes sense in my mind to have the MC brake line flare out at the junction block to help amplifie the brake fluid presure, ill wait see if anyone else chimes in, i understand the importance of making that part strong, a crack or split there would be deadly, but could it also been used to amplifie the presure thats all i have left, im out of idears, other than giving up like some and spending thousands on disc, but that will never ever happen, </p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-04-05 7:17 AM
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Location: Perth Australia | Both my 60s have the dual front cylinders and single rears
Does your car have power brakes?
I actually have a problem with mine as well which are power brakes
The power brakes have an adjustable push rod for the mc, now if I adjust my push rod to get a little free play, after a while, my pedal will go to the floor and I have to pump up the pedal and then its fine until I leave it for a while, then it goes to the floor again
If I adjust the free play out, I get a good pedal and it stays good, but then after a while, the brake lights come on by themselves
If I push the pedal, the brake lights then go out when I take my foot off
This is driving me mad 
In the mc, there is a hole thats at the released end of the cylinder that (I think) is there to allow the fluid to expand with heat and allow the brake linings to kick back away from the drums
Not sure if this has something to do with both of our problems?
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| <p>simple system MC, lines, WC ers non power I should have been done with these 2 days ago, now im getting frustrated and making a mess, other than a small undetectable leak , XX large coffee and I go at it again "the cheap always comes out exspensive"</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-04-05 7:27 AM
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Location: Perth Australia | Just think, once you nail it, you will become the brake guru
I am at the point of pulling the new mc off and seeing if I have a rebuild-able original one to put back
Who knows?
Its 1/4 to 8pm here now, so I wont be doing anything tonight, but you have all day
Be interested to see how you get on
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Location: Ontario, Canada | ttotired - 2015-04-05 7:12 AM
In the mc, there is a hole thats at the released end of the cylinder that (I think) is there to allow the fluid to expand with heat and allow the brake linings to kick back away from the drums
Not sure if this has something to do with both of our problems?
A few years back I couldn't bleed the brakes on a 58 Dodge (original setup) after installing a new MC. Finally removed the MC and clamped it in a vise. On the bench you can see the tiny hole Mick referred to and in my case the piston wouldn't retract enough to "open" that hole to the reservoir.
The rebuilder had removed material at the mounting end of the cast MC, probably to remove rust etc. I returned the MC and had them reorder several. Three "new" ones came in. We checked them and again one of them was bad!!
Greg |
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| I took off the new MC and replace with the old, at least I had something before, with the old, then went back with the new, right now im just cracking the speed bleeder and letting it rip, kinda better, but deff not safe, RT,RB,LT,LB, maybe my problem lines with the WC, I just pulled apart the fronts down to the spindles to switch the bottom WC last week while waiting on my MC to come in, I though i might have the left on the right and right on the left , other than the tops where the hose connect , does it matter much on the bottom, will wrongly places WC on the total contack give u fits trying to get the air out or is not that important, its important to Chrysler otherwise why would they list spec WC for top/bottm/left/right im done for the day, tomorrow i go at it again, im ganna check with rock auto,to see if i see anything on there pictures and compare it to what i have installed now maybe iv got everything on upside down, im known to do this type of stuff |
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| I looked up bundy brake tube lines, but did no see anything that resembles what I have on my 1960 Plymouth, which is a hard brake line from the MC , but as it gets close to the junction block, it has another hard line that it goes into, about 4", I say spliced, because at first I thought it was a repair, looked like it was wedged into a larger line , deff 2 pieces, my 61 does not have this, it has 1 hardline from MC to junction block, I understand about it being a stress point, but also wondering if it also a place for the brake fluid to explode into the smaller lines that connect to the junction block, |
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Location: Perth Australia | I didnt find the roll the same as I used, but napa has all sorts of lengths with fitting already done
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Brake-Line...
Yours will be longer than this particular one, but have a scroll through and I think you should find one thats just right
There is no expansion points or anything like that in your brake system and the only way to amplify hydraulic pressure is to go from big to small, but that reduces volume
Think of a fire hose, lots of water that comes out of the nozzle for 30 feet or so and will knock you off your feet, now, connect your garden hose to it and see what happens, you will get a stream of water 50 feet or so, but much less water will actually be used and it wont knock you off your feet, it will cut your feet off
The 1/4"section is for bulk fluid flow (it has to go to at least 4, but probably 6 wheel cylinders), then its 3/16 all the way
Not sure of your bleeding pattern?
I start at the further-est wheel r/r then l/r, then r/f then l/f, but definitely rears and fronts separate not side to side
Your brake block should have 4 lines on it, the mc one, one to the left front, one to the right front and one that goes to the rears, so consider that you are really bleeding 3 circuits (treat the rears as 1)
Now, before I get yelled at by someone, you do have to bleed both the rears separately to each other, but in respect to the junction block, they are one brake circuit
Try not to over think this, get some brake line line locks and try locking off 2 of the 3 circuits and see what you get and you can work your way through which circuit is causing the problem
I didnt notice if you have changed out your flexi lines?, if these are bad, they can give you a spongey pedal as they swell up under pressure
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Location: Perth Australia | By the way
I drip bleed the system first to make sure there is fluid getting to all 4 corners without any restrictions
If you have lines full of rust or swollen hoses, the fluid will not get there under its own weight
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| <p>hose are new as of last year, MC new . WC new, I just finish up bleeding it again, I must be getting air in some where , if the shoes are locked to the drums I get a decent pedal, but as soon as I ajust the shoes I lose it, tomorrow I will readjust the shoes again, maybe my drums are junk too thin, my new MC has a brass pug where the brake pressure light switch goes, my 61 has it on the pedal, I pumped up the pedal but it doesn't do much, I thought I felt some wetness near that brass plug, but unsure if its collateral from spilled brake fluid from bleeding, everythings nice and clean now, tomorrow I will pump up the brakes hard and hope iv got a tiny leak there, if nothing changes, ill move it to the side and pull out the 60, and enjoy that for a while, then in a couple weeks ill take a fresh look at the 61, I hate to through money at it, I was reading on the imperial club looking at the old miller tools , for these cars, back in the day they had a pressure bleeder with single pot MC adapters to pressure bleed the stuburn brakes, wish I had one , but not sure it would make a diff, somethins not right , but I need to walk away for a while and enjoy my 60 that has not problems to deal with, I did a lot to that at the end of the year and over the winter, engine pulled new head, complete gasket job, painted it, cleaned painted engine compartment, and 904 was pulled cleaned and rebuilt, so I wanna enjoy that, u gatta have aleast 2 old cars otherwise ull go nuts</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-04-05 10:27 PM
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Location: Perth Australia | I have 2 but neither have made the road yet
Close with the dodge though
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| u got them, and u down under, I always think off mad max and the other guy mick, the guy with the knife and alligator vest, people from Australia are AOKAY, the oldest rocks on the planet, I took the 61 for a run , after all iv done with the brakes, nothing has changed from last year, if I didn't have the 60 to compare, id thing I was fine, breaks suck, mushy, same as always, so changing the MC, and reversing the lower WC, did nothing to improve the breaks, im deff sucking air somewhere, I think its MC, that's the key to any manual non power drum brake set up, with out a perfect pump, your chasing your tail, and im done doing that, ill wait for raybestos MC to become available from back order from rock auto, |
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| <p>i think iv figured it out, again no luck with getting firm pedal, found a small leak at wheel cylinders connecting tub , snugged that up, my bottom front WC are on the opposite side, the bleeder screw should be at the top , mine are on the bottom, I had them on correct before, I thought I had them on wrong , grrrrr air be being trap at the top of the WC, ill pull apart again again later this week and clean up my mess iv made, ill again paint my backing plates, I hope after this change , the pedal becomes rock hard , im still concerned with new MC its not a dorman ( back order) i did plug it to test it is was rock hard so that indicates its good, </p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-04-07 3:33 PM
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| "the eagle has landed" "Houston we have a pedal" finally I have a very good, high pedal, the best pedal iv had since owning this bitch 61 savoy, always fights me, bottom WC that I orig had on correct, then changed, then changed back, was the problem, plus the new MC helped, too anyone reading this garble, and has had trouble getting a high hard pedal , double check your bottom WC, the bleeder screw must be on top, also u must pay special attention to bleeding the bottom WC, I think they hold most of the air, now on to other stuff, |
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| <p>wow, I switched cars this morning, I went back in time 1961 to 1960 savoy, wow, 1960, was a hell of a year, first year unibody , last year fins, my 60 is a cal built. this cars is an animal, I think cars built in LA cal, are by far superior than cars built anywhere else, just my opinion, both my 60 savoy and 65 442 where built in cal, and both are animals,</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-04-12 5:24 PM
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1960 plymouth MC to junction block brake line
