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Location: North Australia | I need help to decide how to aircondition my 60 2drht Imp.
I have decided to install a rear air unit in the car. The Sanden compressor is mounted on the engine, That is all I have done.
Should I find an original rear unit and install that, or purchase an aftermarket rear unit? Who can supply a rear air unit?
I could only find this
http://www.classicautoair.com/
Any other tips I need to know?
Steve. |
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | Their trunk unit looks pretty decent. It doesn't say what it's btu rating is, hopefully it's more then the typical front units, which are around 18,000 btu. Ideally it would be around 23,000 btu if you live in AZ like I do. But the btu rating would be my biggest worry out here. With the unit and air outlets in the back you need plenty of cooling power to cool things down up front. I've stuck a rear unit in a Blazer once and it wasn't any harder then sticking one under the dash, just have to run longer lengths of hose so I don't think you'll have any problems. The main tip I would offer is to fit that biggest condenser you can in front of the radiator. I jacked the front of my Matador up so I could slip the condenser in from the bottom. From how the original factory ones look I assume they had to do the same. But from what I've read the best thing you can do to maximize performance is to use the largest possible condenser.
Hmm, now that I wrote all that I should ask if you've looked into doing a "hidden" front unit., the kind that sort of hides the evap box as much as possible and uses outlets along the lower edge of the dash. Like I said, I'm in az and it's darn hard to cool things off here and you want to have that cold air blowing RIGHT ON YOU and RIGHT NOW, not traveling from a package shelf 5 feet away thru all the hot air that's in the car. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | To me the most important aspect of AC is the air movement coming at me. My opinion would be that a rear unit ONLY would be totally inadequate for comfort. I have used Classic Auto Air for several different cars (replace or rebuild of AC parts where the car was factory AC to begin with). I'd talk to them by phone asking if they have a heat and AC combo that may fit under your dash.
Regarding installing factory air components to your originally NON AC car .... firewalls in the late '50s had different stampings between AC and non-AC cars. I know this is true in the '57-58 Chryslers at least and probably others. So you could run into major difficulties with installation of factory AC. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I've always been curious about the cooling effect of rear A/C units.
The cooled air would follow the roofline, pass over the rear seat occupants' heads(?) and would fall down onto the heads
of the front seat people(?).
My Grandfather had a 56 Crappie 4-dr sedan, but it featured really cool (pun intended) individual cooling nozzles and outlets
located on the roof right at the heads all of the occupants.
Very efficient design and construction.
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Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | Yeah, I also wonder what a rear AC does.....has anyone actually owned and driven a car that had factory front and rear AC units?
Speaking of rear AC, I have a rear AC unit from a 58 Chrysler I'd like to sell....I suspect it could be rebuilt. |
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | d500neil - 2013-09-24 4:07 PM
I've always been curious about the cooling effect of rear A/C units.
The cooled air would follow the roofline, pass over the rear seat occupants' heads(?) and would fall down onto the heads
of the front seat people(?).
My Grandfather had a 56 Crappie 4-dr sedan, but it featured really cool (pun intended) individual cooling nozzles and outlets
located on the roof right at the heads all of the occupants.
Very efficient design and construction.
Years ago I recall a family friend who always bought lincolns talking about how cold the AC in his 57 Lincoln was. He indicated it had the side of the roof vents that blew on your head and said it would give him a headache because it was impossible to not have it hit your head with the cold air if you wanted to get direct cooling on a hot day. |
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Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!
Posts: 5358
Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK) | I also have a purportedly '60's model rear air unit that I need to sell. It is an after market unit. Due to my declining health, I am not going to be installing it.
The capillary tube from the dash control unit was broken when I got it, but I'm told it can be replaced with a new tube.
If you're interested, pm me. Not expensive. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dunno about the Lincoons, but the Crappies had a GREAT system, where you had two sets of 'long' louver-flaps that could be
individually opened, or not, plus a small snorkel that could be rotated, so as to direct the cooled air straight onto your head/face
area, or not.
Just, perfect.
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Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | For Greg
I owned a '63 Formal Black Le Baron ( 2000-2003 ) and a '66 Seq Green Le Baron ( 2001-2011 ) with Dual A/C. To my wife it was "like a meat locker" to her so most of the time
only the front unit was used.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Location: North Australia | I found some more rear air options.
http://www.vintageair.com/2013catalog/2013%20VintageAir%20Catalog%2...
and this
http://www.oldairproducts.com/catalog/custom-street-rod-ac-units/hu...
I have put the Classic air shortcut on this page for people to compare.
http://www.classicautoair.com/trunk-air-conditioner.html
Walt, thanks for the offer, but I think I will try one of these products, I am in Australia and it is a bit of a punt for me to risk an old unit, considering the filthy prices for shipping here. I just need advice on the best one. Do you have any experiences?
Anyone else got experience with these units, or have an opinion on the manufacturers?
Steve. |
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | From what can be gleaned from their webpages I'd go with the old air products AC System [IP-2005T] $790.00 Dual Trunk Unit as it appears to be the "biggest" or Vintage Air's 685000-VUY Cool Only 9.5” 23” BIG POWER OUT BACK! system. Reading between the lines of the smaller units they say things like "for when EXTRA cooling is needed, or for when you can't mount a system under the dash in a SMALL car". As I mentioned before, the typical add on system these places sell is only 18,000 btus and if you stick something that small in the back of a big car with all the ducts on the package shelf the main thing you'll get from it when you are sitting up front is noise like your mother-in-law is sitting in back. Because these are recirculating air most of the air that comes out of one of them with a typical fan will hardly make it to the back of the front seat before it gets pulled back to the return duct.
Call each of the companies and ask them how many cfm the blower blows and how many btu's the coil is rated for. There's a good chance they won't know but you might get lucky... or they might just make something up. The typical add on underdash units blow about 260 cfm.
If you like saving money and adopting things to fit you could just buy some of the vents and ducts from the ac companies and then buy this monster as your "box"... note the cfm and btu ratings!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-A-C-Bus-and-Van-Under-Dash-Evapor...
At one time I thought of putting this under the dash of my 60 Matador but it's just too big to fit.
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Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | PS,. what model sanden compressor do you have?? |
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Location: North Australia | I am still working on this.
I am going with -
Vintage air high capacity trunk unit 685000. About $636 delivered.
Sanden compressor SD7H15. about $300 delivered.
Condenser for Imperials $350 delivered.
Still need hoses/tubes, connectors and a dryer. This is looking expensive 
I have more questions.
What gas do I use? R-134a or R12?
Do I run refrigerant flex hoses all the way or fit in hard lines on the long runs and hoses where I need to? Remember this is a trunk unit.
Should I fit a bulkhead fitting in the rear wheel arch, to penetrate the trunk?
How do I select a dryer?
How do I select refrigerant tube/hose sizes and materials?
Does anyone have photos of the OEM refrigerant tube routing on an Imperial?
I am not a complete AC Nuff Nuff, but it probably looks like it 
Help here Mick!
Steve. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | Prices seem about right so far
It will be r134a, r12 has been banned here for about 10+ years
You can use bulkhead fittings or grommets and run the lines directly through the floor.
You can run flexible lines all the way, which is easier if your going to do this yourself, otherwise, if you use flare fittings, you can run hard lines made from copper or aluminium.
You can buy aluminium O ring leanths of pipe but then you will need to use joining fittings to mix and match leanths
Hose/pipe sizes are easy, #10 for the low side (that goes from the compressor to the evaporator), #8 for the high side gas (goes from the compressor to the condenser) #6 high side liquid (goes from the condenser to the drier, then drier to evaporator)
Be prepared for how much the hosing is going to cost, A/C hose and fitting arnt that cheap and quickly add up
I would be aiming to put the hoses through the boot floor, not the wheel arch
If you go hard lines, you can get foam tube to cover them and act as insulation
Nearly forgot
You have to be licensed to gas that a/c up as well, so thats another cost (estimate about $200+)
Edited by ttotired 2014-09-02 6:49 PM
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Location: North Australia | Thanks Mick. Parts are ordered. I have got coming the parts listed above plus a dryer with binary switch. I have a couple mates who will do the gassing for me at the right price!
I was thinking about running stainless tubes on the long length from the engine bay to the boot. This long run is prone to damage due to it will be exposed on the outside of the RHS frame rail. I was thinking to use SS as it is more durable, what do you think?. Not much room to tuck it up without cutting body mounts, which I want to avoid. I have seen a few engine bay photos of this model with AC and it looks like copper tubing originally. I will probably try to copy under hood design as best I can.
Mick, what size tubes will I need to run from front to rear? (in imperial fractions), and can I run them together/side by side? If I use metal tubing, is insulation on this long run required or beneficial?
Do you think I should use barrier hose all the way? (it would be up and down a few times the length of the floor if I tucked it up between the body mounts).
Also If anyone can post a photo of how the factory did this long run of tube I would be grateful! It might give me an idea on the route etc.
More questions coming soon.
Steve. |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Steve
With my OEM Vehicles the diameter of the metal is 1/2 inch and the pressure side was "un-covered" once it was away from the heat of Engine Compartment.
The factory attached the tubing with a single bolt through a rounded W shaped clamp.
Rodger & Gabby
COS |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | Should be 1/2" low side and 5/16 on the high side
I cant see why stainless wouldnt work, but I have not tried it, so your on your own there
Copper is fine, they use aluminium these days, but copper is much easier to flare the pipe (less likely to split), just remember to heat the end up, then let it cool first, this softens the copper and makes the flare better
You dont "have" to insulate the pipes, but it it better, you only need to insulate the low side (bigger) one as heat lost in the high side one (it can get "burn your finger" hot) is good, but heat put into the low side is bad
The low side pipe will also get a surprising amount of condensate and can actually ice over when the system is working, the insulation will stop or drastically reduce this (good thing, water dripping all over the place under the car can be worrying and not a good look)
What you can do (as I am sure you dont want thick foam stuck under your car) is to get whats called "Tacky Tape")
Should be readily available at any A/C parts supplies, not sure what the retail is, as its sold as consumable, but its not expensive (20 to 50 for a roll of it?)
Its a bitumen and cork type of stuff and you just unroll it massage it around the pipe, once on properly, it is a sh1t to get off (what you want) and will not look out of place under the car
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | ttotired - 2014-09-07 5:56 PM
just remember to heat the end up, then let it cool first, this softens the copper and makes the flare
I hadn't heard of that trick! How hot? Just a little?
Thanks, Mick.
Greg |
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Veteran
Posts: 174
Location: Phoenix, AZ | I live in Phoenix and just installed a Vintage Air behind dash uniit in my 59 Plymouth. I think the hoses and fittings cost about as much as the unit! I used all EZ Clip hoses and fittings, and they are very easy to use, but not cheap. For long runs the stainless tubing will definitely save a lot of money. I think Vintage air might sell the tubing, and they have all the other fittings too. You can purchase all the R134 you want on Amazon and the price is great. I purchased a used vacuum pump on Ebay and did it all myself. You can use a digital mail scale to weigh your R134 cans before and after filling. The new uniits are filled by weight of the R134, not by gauges like the old R12 units. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | Jim, in Australia, refrigerants are controlled substances, you have to have a licence to buy and use it.
Greenhouse gas thing
Greg, Its called aneiling (cant spell it, thats why I put heat up), same as softening steel, heat it up until you see colours in the copper and just let it cool.
Your flaring tool will be much happier, you dont have to re harden the copper either
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Thanks for the info, Mick.
Greg |
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Posts: 3780
Location: NorCal |
My '57 NY had both front and rear air via Vintage Air, the rear unit drew in air through speaker grilles on the package tray shelf and delivered the cooled air through louvers where the rear arm rest ash trays used to be.
 (Rear AC.jpg)
Attachments
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 Rear AC.jpg (70KB - 214 downloads)
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Location: North Australia | Thanks Lads, all info appreciated. 57, I have studied your thread on your cars rear air.
Parts have arrived. I made a stuff up and ordered the wrong Sanden compressor I got a SD7B10 and need a SD7H15. Also the condenser I ordered will need some work on mounts to fit my 60. The one I ordered was a 57-59 reproduction. It suffered some minor damage during its trip here, packaging was minimal.
Also need an extra length of vintage air 4 inch vent hose, which I have not been able to find online yet.
The vintage air Monster trunk unit looks the goods.
So, moving in the right direction, albeit slowly!
Steve. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | Steve
You might be able to find that vent hose at your local kenworth dealer (thats where I found it)
It is used under the cab on a "K104" as a cab floor cooling air duct on the R/H side under the cab and its about 1200mm long
Not sure on price, but should be somewhere in the 100 dollar range
SD7H15 is like a block casting number, there are 1000s of compressors with that on them, but they are not the same.
Put a picture up of the compressor you got, I think (from memory) the one you got is a shorter one, which may be an advantage in mounting
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Location: North Australia | Mick some pics in this old thread. I need help to spec this thing to re-order. I thought I had it sorted
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=53665&...
Steve.
Edited by 60 Imp 2014-09-26 7:09 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | Ok
On the compressor that you used to make your mounts. there will be a model number, thats how you can get the exact same one (but New)
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | The SD7H15 is extremely common and a good compressor, much higher capacity the the B10. The rear head can be rotated to position the connections in any of several directions to best fit your application. If you order it positioned how you need it you won't have to remove and rotate the head... I'd hate to be opening a brand new compressor and breaking that seal so I would be sure an order it the way I wanted it if I could. Most of the installations I've seen have them pointing UP, I suspect that's how most of them are sold if no one specifies something different. That's how mine was. |
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Rear air conditioner for my 60 Imperial.
