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Expert
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Ok things have come "To a Head errr Headers" now.
Do you experts here, (Particularly Dukeboy), think that this pair of Headman Shorties
(Summit Racings Part Number 78076) will fit into my 59 Vert with the soon to be 440 Engine?
Thanks!!!!
Here is the link for the Headers
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-78076/
Gary |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | Yessir, they's be the ones, but you better have one hell of an exhaust guy when you see where the collectors dump at..I had to cut the collectors OFF and weld the down piping straight to the headers and use a "Slip joint"(Flange swelled just enough for the pipe to slip inside the other for tight fit with NO CLAMP) under Christine in order for these to clear all the steering linkages.
OH and BTW: A Mini Starter is a MUST when running these headers. Otherside, that big, ol, heavy, 85 LB. starter that came on the original cast iron transmission will NOT WORK with these unless EXTENSIVE mods are made to the headers.....
You can almost make out what I'm talking bout here in this pic. by how close the front down pipes are to the steering linkage.
Edited by dukeboy 2010-12-08 12:37 AM
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Location: Slidell La. | I had to massage mine to clear the motor mounts for my 400 , and the mounts are period correct for the car . |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | Mine cleared my mounts, but little else...Had to custom fab the entire exhaust sytem form the headers back, but it works and doesn't leak... |
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Veteran
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Location: Aurora, Co | Dukeboy, I've been poking about on the Hot Heads Site looking for Headers for my 56 Firedome 331. HH has Sanderson Block Huggers. Any comments? I'm concerned about them clearing the MASSIVE starter & Steering GEar. I also checked out Headman & Dougs. Both seem to be '67 & on. Othger than the Sandersons, I haven't found anything which will fit the "Small Hemi" & still fit inside the Chassis. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | HEMI headers SUCK in these cars..Period...They either don't clear the motor mounts, or they dump right on the T-Bars...Good luck with that Hemi stuff, as this one more reason I don't mess with that Engine...
I have a set of manifolds if you need 'em off a Pass. car 354..
Edited by dukeboy 2010-12-23 2:06 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I still like the idea of using the Sandersons, or the Hedmans, as a good starting point, for the custom-installation
of exhaust runners which will clear all the engine compartment obstructions.
Their passenger-side manifold already fits perfectly, but their runners could be lengthened for better
performance.
Edited by d500neil 2010-12-23 2:54 PM
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Expert
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | The Headman shortie headers cleared everything but the IDI Starter I had in the car, and I figgered that was a good possibility that would be a problem, as that starter didn't even clear the old exaust system and I had to modify that. Fortunately Headman warns you of this and lists the starter that will work. New starter went in like a "Piece of cake" and clears the headers by a mile, and should the starter ever need changed, the headers will not have to be disconnected, alto the pipe that connects to the headers "Might".
New headers look great (they are the ceramic coated ones--inside and out). Next week the car gets an all new exaust, and YEP, Dukeboy, we got an xlnt exaust man to do it---In a convertible, (because of the "X Frame") the exaust is even more of a "Challenge"---getting a big enough muffler so sound not excessive. I will take pictures and list the parts we used.
Gary |
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Location: Big pimpin' | I would love to see that Gary, as I did my own and trying to tell someone here how much fab work went into it is hard. Your guy sounds like he's top shelf...Please post the pics when you get-r-done ...
Edited by dukeboy 2010-12-23 10:16 PM
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Veteran
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Location: Aurora, Co | The Headman Shorties is what I'm looking at for the Hemi. What Starter does Headman list to clear the Exhaust? Did I miss the warning on the Headman site? I checked the model # for the Hedman shorties listed. says 67 through 74. Your description mentions the soon to be 440.
THe old girl still has the 331 she was born with. Are we talking about the same thing?
Dukeboy, are those 354 manifolds the stock bottle necks I already have? I was hoping for better flow than the Cast Iron Soda Straws I have...
Edited by ColoradoFiredome 2011-01-03 3:03 PM
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | "Fortunately on Headman's site is a suggestion ( A strong one in fact) to use "151 - Must use TCI-type mini starter" which turns out to be a
McLeod #810158 starter."
I don't know that if that starter would would work on your 331 or any older Hemi. but check McLeod's web-site or give them a call.
They were great to deal with, even hand delivered the starter to Jon's shop and said try it out, if it doesn't fit, just bring it back.
The starter cranks up this "New Beast" just Great 
Gary
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 1959Dodge - 2011-01-03 1:42 PM "Fortunately on Headman's site is a suggestion ( A strong one in fact ) to use "151 - Must use TCI-type mini starter" which turns out to be a McLeod #810158 starter." I don't know that if that starter would would work on your 331 or any older Hemi. but check McLeod's web-site or give them a call. They were great to deal with, even hand delivered the starter to Jon's shop and said try it out, if it doesn't fit, just bring it back. The starter cranks up this "New Beast" just Great Gary I think these are the same mini-starters we're using on our 315 Dodge with the aluminum tranny adapter plate. I've ordered the one from Tuff Stuff, but I think they are basically all the same. If I could find the "truck" exhaust manifolds for the early I'd love those. I hear they are supposed to flow the best. But, will probably go with headers on the 331 instead.
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Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | Colorado FireDome - Are you talking about a 56 DeSoto 330 or a 56 DeSoto with a 331 Chrysler Hemi in it? If it's the 56 330 Hemi, the Sanderson shorties clear EVERYthng...including the Stock starter. I have a 57 345 hemi in my 55 DeSoto, and the shorties fit like a glove...dumps point straight down on both sides. I have the same set on the 291 in my Hot Rod...same fit. Yous need to look for "DD-5" on the Sanderson Site, for the DeSoto shorties...the DD-4's are for the Dodge Hemi's. They're listed as being for installation in Ford Hot Rods, but the fit in a Stock 55/56/57, is like Factroy...UNLESS you have a 331 Chrysler Hemi in your 56 DeSoto. Then, all bets are off...
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Location: Big pimpin' | ColoradoFiredome - 2011-01-03 2:42 PM
Dukeboy, are those 354 manifolds the stock bottle necks I already have? I was hoping for better flow than the Cast Iron Soda Straws I have...
All I know is they are NOT the four bolt flange thingys everybody here seems to love..
Edited by dukeboy 2011-01-10 12:56 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The "4-bolt-flanged exhaust manifolds" are for the 354 Dodge Hemi truck engine, but they will bolt-up to a 354/392 Chrysler,
which have 2-bolt flanged manifolds, which do not breath as well as the truck 4-bolters do.
I don't know whether the earlier 331 CHRY Hemi's have the same exhaust ports on their heads; if they do (which I doubt)
then they, too, could have the OEM 4-bolt-flanged manifolds bolt up to them.
What's confusing, is that the 315 Dodge Hemi truck exhaust manifolds have only the "two-bolt-flanged" manifolds on them, and,
obviously, the 315 Dodge truck manifolds won't bolt up to the 354 engine, but, those two manifolds do kind of resemble each
other.
The 1957 Dodge D501 race car has the 354 engine in it, with the 4-bolt truck manifolds, for maximum OEM-breathing capability.
Edited by d500neil 2011-01-10 6:09 PM
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Location: Aurora, Co | Colorado FireDome - Are you talking about a 56 DeSoto 330 or a 56 DeSoto with a 331 Chrysler Hemi in it? If it's the 56 330 Hemi, the Sanderson shorties clear EVERYthng...including the Stock starter.
Nope. It's the original 330CID DeSoto. The Shop Manual says 330.4 CID. From the Pics on the Sanderson Site & your comment, it looks like I'd have to extend the Down Tubes forward from their current location.
THanks for the tip, I was fretting. I see Patriot also makes TiteTuck Headers for the Early Hemis.
Motor sure looks fine. So whats the Bump Out on the front left of the Valve Cover? Between the 1 & 3 Cylinders? |
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | I used the Sanderson header. It took some work with some mandrel bent pieces but I got it in |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | I used the Sanderson header. It took some work with some mandrel bent pieces but I got it in
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Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | COLORADO FIREDOME - What Bump Out? Why would you need to extend the dump forward? Everything fits fine and clears everything. The down pipe will go straight down and back...
Edited by 345 DeSoto 2011-01-29 7:58 AM
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Location: Aurora, Co | I'll look again but it was -3 deg at noon today. Won't be back into the 50's till Friday. Sounds like the Saundersons are the way to go. I also checked out the Schumaker Tri-Y Headers mentioned in another thread. THey look very nice but 62 & up. Thread mentioned they are coming out with a FL small Block Hemi header.
THere a square Bump Out right between & below the 1 & 3 cylinders. I don't have that on my 331. Just curious.
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Location: Aurora, Co | I've been lurking on the Header Threads looking for Tips & things to avoid. I read a mention of Schumacher Tri-Y & their forth coming new Model for Small Blocks. I went to the Site & they look really nice. Appear to clear all obsticales. I don't see any pics of Hemis with their Headers.
http://www.engine-swaps.com/Pages/Products.html
I dropped them a note to ask for more details, application, Price & Availability. Pasted below is Mike Schumacher's reply.
We are coming out with a small block header. An LA small block. I don't know if it will work on 331 Hemi's or for that matter mid 50's vehicles.
Sorry for the bad news.
Michael
Schumacher Creative Services
206.364.7151
mschumacher@speakeasy.net
mike@engine-swaps.com
No help for me but maybe it will work for you...
RT> |
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Location: Oconomowoc Wi | Hey Gary...are we ever gonna see these pics of the exhaust system with the shorties ? |
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Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | COLORADOFIREDOME - What your arrow points to isn't a "bump out"...it's an optical illusion... |
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | "Hey Gary...are we ever gonna see these pics of the exhaust system with the shorties ?"
If You mean "This Gary", I had posted the pictures of the headers and exaust system in the
Engine Exaust ---Forum
Here's the link (Below)
Since then I added glass packs as the exaust was a bit on the noisy side, it's great now
and the car will still bust the tires lose, even when moving and with the 276 gears.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=33438&...
Gary |
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Headman Shortie Headers
