Re: 727 Leaking Fluid like it was made in Great Britain

[Mike & Deb <lefevre@xxxxxxxxxx>]

John,
I'm not sure it would make any difference  but is the windage baffle in 
place over the vent hole? The newer TF's eliminated it but placed a 
plastic baffle on the inside of the vent.
Mike LeFevre







On 9/8/2011 1:57 AM, John Hammond wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: 426_maxwedge@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: "The 1962 to 1965 Mopar Mail List Clubhouse" 
> <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:37 PM
> Subject: Torqueflite Flood
>
>
> This one seems to have everyone stumped and the ordeal so far will 
> make for a long explanation: so please bear with me, and ANY imput or 
> past experiences relayed will be most appreciated. My '64 330 wagon 
> has a mild 440 backed by a Full Manual Valve-Bodied 727. Both engine 
> and transmission are fresh rebuilds from respected shops and have less 
> than 200 miles on them. Since the 440 is so new, I've been really 
> conservative in driving style and nothing has seen the high side of 
> 3800rpm yet.  Coming home from a cruise-in a scant 7 miles from my 
> home a few weeks back everything is as fine as it has been since it's 
> first miles driven. Later that evening the wife and I decide to go for 
> a bite to eat and drive the wagon to the restarant. Coming off of a 
> long hill in third at about 50mph something lets go and pumps most all 
> of the trans-fluid out of the 727 and oils down the exhaust so bad I 
> thought it was an electrical fire under the dash: car was so full of 
> smoke it was hard to see out.  I get it on the side of the road and by 
> the time I had the fire extinguisher in hand, the tons of smoke had 
> dissipated and a wave of trans fluid ran out from underneath the car. 
> Quickly looking underneath the STREAM of fluid was coming from the 
> inspection cover slightly to the passenger side from center.  Car went 
> home on a rollback since I hoped it was something like a pump and 
> likely the internals might be OK. The flood was nice and red and had 
> no burnt scent from it. I should mention that the wagon has a huge 
> plate style cooler, (probabaly a quart cap.), and a 1-qt. extra 
> capacity pan along with a new (10-1/2" ?), mild upgraded convertor.
>    The transmission shop pulled the 727 out, removed the convertor and 
> pump - which appeared fine with no signs of damage or failure, 
> replaced the usual, expected seals, reinstalled everything and started 
> the car which instantly began pouring out fluid again. Looking behind 
> the convertor with an inspection mirror while still installed - it 
> appeared as if the convertor drive snout wasn't engaging the seal in 
> the pump and thereby allowing a massive leak. Out comes the 727 and 
> the convertor was replaced with a new stock-type convertor along with 
> all of the previous mentioned seals again just in case something was 
> pinched or misaligned on the first attempt. Upon restarting; no 
> leaking is apparant. Testing it in every gear by stalling it against 
> the brakes after the fluid was up to operating temp no leaks. Car is 
> deemed fixed and I drove it five miles home.  I drove it home slowly 
> in the rain because of bad wipers but nothing seemed less than ok. 
> Following day I decided to take a short spin for a better assessment, 
> started it, let it run for 4 or 5 minutes, no leaks, no smells or 
> smoke, and I started down the road. In less than 1 mile it has started 
> pumping out the fluid again. Turned around, parked it, check the 
> dipstick which still shows some fluid at the very end of the stick and 
> I started making calls.
>     The drive hub or snout of the convertor shows to have perfect wear 
> pattern at 200 miles without any galling or scratches. If the bushing 
> in the front pump was bad, the evidence would show up here in that 
> reguard due to slop allowing less than concentric alignment. So we can 
> probably rule out, convertor, pump, and seals at this point. The 
> dipstick is from Lokar, I called their tech department and verified 
> that the scale is consistantly calibrated prior to manufacture to an 
> original 727 tube and stick as factory installed.  They stated it was 
> so, and assured me that if seated against the case the indicated area 
> will yield a correct level reading. The FSM calls for 7-9 quarts on a 
> stock panned 727. Adding a qt. for the deep pan, a qt. for the huge 
> cooler, that would bring the total up to around 11 qts. Almost exactly 
> the amount used to produce the correct level shown on the verified 
> Lokar dipstick. Hensley Racing when posed with this problem suggests 
> that the transmission is simply overfilled and the excess is being 
> spit out of the vent on the forward top portion of the front pump.  I 
> agree that the vent is likely the source of the leak at this time 
> especially considering the location of the stream of the leak 
> compaired to the location of the vent hole. What doesn't make sense is 
> why the car made 200 miles prior to the problem with that amount of 
> fluid and now that the leak has started; nothing seems to stop it at 
> the same given quantity of fluid installed and level checked. One 
> other question I've yet to get an answer to is "Venting from where?" 
> Is this hole in the pump justl ike a hole for a breather in a valve 
> cover, or is it plumbed/part of, to a specific passage or circuit?
>     I contacted Turbo-Action tech dept. and told them what I'd been 
> going through and asked if this could be a valve-body related issue.  
> They said it was possible, but unlikely.  I've used the full-manual 
> reverse-pattern Cheetah body in a number of cars, without any 
> problems, ever, for decades. The tech stated that the regulator valve 
> may have stuck allowing pressure to go unchecked in the high gear 
> servo which would force the fluid out the path of least resistance ( 
> i.e.  the vent or the dipstick tube). The Lokar stick is seated pretty 
> firmly in the tube I might add.  The repair entails removal of the 
> valve body, removal of the regulator from the body, polish with emory 
> cloth until smooth  activation and release is obtained and reinstall. 
> He again states that this condition is very rare to occur, however.  I 
> surmise that since it has obviously happened at some time, and since 
> right now, it is the most logical explanation of the condition I'm 
> experiencing it's the best guess so far.....but wow it seems really 
> far-fetched.  I'm attempting to contact Pat Blais to see if he has any 
> ideas on this as well, but I've yet to speak with him.  Maybe someone 
> here has some info as to what is happening and how to address it; or 
> somebody else I should talk to?  In all my years of Mopardom I've 
> never seen or heard of anything like this and neither had Hensley 
> Racing. I am by no means a transmission guy but one doesn't need to be 
> with a 727. You simply install it, fill it, and beat on it 
> unmercifully till the end of time without worry unless you install a 
> transbrake and/or slicks.... at which point you check on it, 
> occassionally. Again, if anybody can shed some light on this, I would 
> be most thankful for your aid... just the transfluid and the bags of 
> oil-dry are approaching my fuel costs......thanks, John Hammond

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