Stan,I am asking you questions to see what information your comments/opinions were based on. The 318 Poly engine will respond like any LA engine to traditional HP modifications and "if" a Tunnel Ram worked on an LA then it will work on a Poly...however, you cannot toss a Tunnel Ram onto any "small" engine and have it perform. The compatibility of the proper parts and machining is what makes any engine perform.
I could say that a Max Wedge has too large of ports to produce bottom end or "streetability" but we all know what we must do to compensate and "Maximize" to reach the goal we are aiming at.
You wrote that "if the heads (Poly) are any good someone would be expanding on their design." Check out the modern Mopar 4.7 engine head design and your question is partially answered.
The Polyshperical combustion chamber provides superior BMEP over the Wedge head and is just below the BMEP for a HEMI; "... the poly engine had one absolutely unique feature: its volumetric efficiency. If the Mopar figures as found in the Plymouth factory manual are to be believed, torque of the poly 318 was 345 lb.ft. Now, take torque and divide it by cubes, then multiply this by 151, and you get brake mean effective pressure (bmep). Try it for your self: bmep for the poly 318 is 164 psi. (Again, that's the figure Plymouth give). That is near to the theoretical limit for an unsupercharged engine (and that's with the old log-type exhaust manifolds too) and is very close to the 426 hemi's bmep of 173psi, which had all those performance-designed components. The bmep figure purely reflects breathing efficiency (proportional use of the charge coming into the engine), and is a product of the head, as opposed to the block, which just needs to suck/blow as rapidly as possible without flying into little pieces..."
The Poly head does not stall, unlike other head designs. A bone-stock/unported Poly head will continue to increase in cfm flow well past the realistic/usable lift of .700." However, we easily made our HP & Torque goals with a modest amount of flow and less dollar input. Our last Poly build made a peak of 412HP & 438Torque but in reality the Poly engine has such a high & flat HP & Torque curve that in quoting "peak" numbers associated with LA powerplants and Big Blocks is misleading; it has far more average HP and torque.
For example; a modest 208cfm @.500" lift on the intake side 9.5 compression 1.94/1.60" valves small 232@.050" dur. and 292/.482" 110LC Hyd Poly Cam cast iron 1957 dual quad w/500cfm Edelbrocks Homemade headers... Goal reached for the street:
From 3400-5400RPM (2000rpm spread) we AVERAGED 428ft.lbs.
" 3600-5600RMP ( " " " ) " AVERAGED 375HPNot bad for a throw-away motor. Core charge is "free." We will leave your non-streetable super stock max wedge engines on the track where they shine best.
The Poly 318 doesn't have to stay "small" with the advent of aftermarket Stroker cranks, although some people prefer the 318 or 360 Poly to the 390, 402, or larger Stroker.
It is hard to beat the low cost outlay of "building" the indigenous powerplant in the 62-65 Mopars; again, no fabbing or modificaton needed to swap enigne/trans or beef-up the suspension or other necessary fixes when transplanting a Big Block or such into the chassis. No cost of buying the 440 or HEMI core engine and trans...
Of course it depends on your goals for the car/engine but I wanted to address some of your comments/opinions as I do not believe you had the information or facts to proffer an informed comment or opinion.
Gary Pavlovich----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Kafouse" <skafouse@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 6:14 AM Subject: Re: Need a new Toy?They are pretty short Im sure, there also small, keeps velocity up. Combined with small carb bores you'd get good thottle response. Neat engine to play with, but if the heads were any good someone would be expanding on there design. Dont get upset, this is just MY OPINION. Ive built stock and super stock max wedge engines and worked on a cup team as a machinst. I dont see how a tunnel ram on a small engine will have any streetability. Again just my opinion.
--- On Thu, 5/5/11, Gary Pavlovich <glpavlovich@xxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Gary Pavlovich <glpavlovich@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: Need a new Toy? To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 5:23 AM Stan, How long are the runners in a stock Poly dual quad intake or the Weiand single four Poly intake? Gary P.----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Kafouse" <skafouse@xxxxxxxxx>To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 3:10 PM Subject: Re: Need a new Toy? So... how tall is this "tunnel ram"? Carb and air cleaner will take what eight inches themselves? Plus clearance so engine can torque over and not hit hood. Is it an individual runner or common plenum? Those short runners will have no bottom end, and if manifold is any good at all will flow more than any poly head ever did. Got a cam and convertor to match intake? Sounds neat, dont think it will work, cept for some wow factor. --- On Wed, 5/4/11, Gary Pavlovich <glpavlovich@xxxxxxx> wrote: > From: Gary Pavlovich <glpavlovich@xxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Need a new Toy? > To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx > Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 9:38 PM > > Yes, I don't think any modern intake can beat a Tunnel Ram > for Max HP & Torque, even the "old school" Weiands...of > course a tunnel is not a user-friendly manifold for the > average Hot-Rodder due to height (for one) which requires no > hood or a cut-out for clearance. > > I will be running a Tunnel Ram on my Poly but I designed > the manifold to fit under the hood...of course I have more > hood clearance than most people (approx. 16" from top of > block face) so I can get away with a "tall enough" > tunnel ram to make it effective and still have the stealth > factor. > > Gary Pavlovich > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Altemose" <jaltemoose@xxxxxxxxx> > To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: Need a new Toy? > > > Indy refers to it as an "In-Line Cross Ram". > > Below is a comparison of the manifolds. Looks like > the Tunnel Ram won out. > http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0911_intake_manifold_tests/index.html > > - Jim > Jim Altemose, Long Island, NY > '63 Polara 500 (Max Wedge) > '63 Polara 500 (383) > '65 Belvedere I (Street Wedge) > '71 Bronco > > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Roger Pettigrew <dodger7998@xxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > > > Ok,,,,,will take your word for it,, would have to see > the intake it self to > > understand,,,,,,, sure looks like an inline set up to > me > > > > > > In a message dated 5/3/2011 11:14:58 A.M. Central > Daylight Time, > > mcreglow@xxxxxxxxx > writes: > > > > actually that is a cross ram. that is the indy > cylinder head x-ram, > > and is the hot ticket for nostalgia super stock > racing. > > http://www.usaperform.com/indy-chrysler-cross-manifolds-p-231.html > > > > On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Roger Pettigrew <dodger7998@xxxxxxx> > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> Nice toy,,,,,,,makes me wonder what the real story > is on cars that are > >> obviously misdescribed in their description,,,,,,, > that is definitely > > not a > >> crossram on it, so makes me wonder what else is > not being seen > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 5/1/2011 4:03:10 P.M. Central > Daylight Time, > >> shelby_nut@xxxxxxxxx > writes: > >> > >> > > http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-classic-cars-1963-plymouth-savoy-W0 > >> QQAdIdZ279189587 > >> > >> > >> -- > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > >> > >> > >> ---- > >> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to > only one person -- > > directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car > transactions and negotiations > > as well as other personal messages only to the > intended recipient, not to > > the Clubhouse public address. This practice will > protect your privacy, > > reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the > content signal to Mopar topic. > > Thanks! > >> > >> 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion > Guidelines: > >> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and > > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > ---- > > Please address private mail -- mail of interest to > only one person -- directly to that person. I.e., send > parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other > personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the > Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your > privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the > content signal to Mopar topic. Thanks! > > > > 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines: > > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. > > > > ---- > Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one > person -- directly to that person. I.e., send > parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other > personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the > Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your > privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the > content signal to Mopar topic. Thanks! > > 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines: > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. > > > ---- Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic. Thanks! 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines: http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.
---- Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic. Thanks! 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.