RE: B body disc brakes - warning - another long reply

[Steven Charette <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mo,
	From the original e-mail, copy the blue underlined link and the
following 2-3 lines, then paste it into your browser.  Email seems to break
long links like that up and only highlights the first line.

Try this, and if it doesn't work, copy all the lines.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-74-MOPAR-CHRYSLER-DODGE-DISC-BRAKE-CONVE
RSION-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230481aa83QQitemZ150399462019QQptZMotor
sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

SC 

-----Original Message-----
From: MO ( Steve Mick) [mailto:micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Saturday, January 09, 2010 4:51 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: B body disc brakes - warning - another long reply


 Dang it! the link near the bottom here says the page not
responding----RATS.......................MO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Charette" <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: B body disc brakes - warning - another long reply


>
> Mo,
> I just forwarded the thread about this from December to you off-list.
>
> The slider-type calipers are cast-iron on cast-iron - that is to say 
> that the cast-iron caliper slides in a groove on the cast-iron caliper 
> bracket.  The other type is pin-type - the caliper slides on two round 
> pins threaded into the caliper bracket.  Pin type calipers are 
> generally regarded as being "better", as they control caliper movement 
> closely.  Once the pins seize up (granted, not likely in a lightly 
> driven repro/resto application) they are a booger to get out, and will 
> never work right again unless they are replaced.
>
> Sit down one night and compare the price of the Scarebird setup to the 
> '73-up Mopar slider setup.  Take bearings, seals, hoses, shields, and 
> any other required hardware into account, and I don't think the 
> difference will be much.
>
> I'm aware that many people have used these kits successfully, but I 
> still have concerns about steel brackets with welded-in nuts.
>
> I just looked on Scarebird's site, and under the "Prototype and 
> Closeout" tab they have a compact conversion bracket that allows 
> mounting the Mopar slider bracket to the older drum spindle.  It's 
> compact and it appears that all fasteners bolt through, rather than 
> into the steel bracket.
> Take a look and compare it to the '49-'53 Jaguar setup pictured below 
> the Mopar setup.  See how long the brackets are and the amount of weld 
> holding the outer bracket piece to the inner piece?  Imagine the 
> amount of force on those welds when the caliper is clamped down on the 
> rotor at highway speed - like a giant lever.  Then look at the Mopar 
> setup above it - not cast-iron to cast-iron, but a lot less leverage.  
> I'm not sure how the Scarebird/Ford/Dodge Truck bracket looks, but I'm 
> guessing it's more like the bottom picture than the top.
>
> Also be aware that the pin-type calipers rely on smooth movement on 
> the pins to keep the caliper centered on the rotor.  With an OE 
> cast-iron caliper bracket, if the pins cease to move smoothly the 
> piston-side pad does all the stopping and the outer pad doesn't see 
> any action.  It just eats up the piston-side pad.
>
> But with a steel bracket like this, if the pins seize up the bracket 
> will simply deflect and both pads will continue to stop the car.  
> While this sounds dandy, realize that everytime you stop the car, the 
> bracket flexes under braking, then back when the brakes are released.  
> Small amounts at first, then larger amounts as things wear.  That 
> constant flexing will eventually work harden the steel resulting in 
> cracks then failure.  And you'll never even know it's happening.
>
> Maybe someday I'll call Scarebird and see if they can convince me that 
> these setups are robust.  I'd just hate to see you, your loved ones, 
> or your car banged up (or worse) in the name of saving a few bucks.
>
> And who knows - maybe they are a great setup, or just the ticket for a 
> show-poodle or trailer queen.  We drive big, old, heavy cars, and 
> while the Dodge 1500 caliper will generate a lot of stopping power, 
> are the rest of the parts transferring that force to the car up to those
heavy loads??
> Follow the load path - heavy duty truck pads, 1/2 ton truck caliper, 
> mild steel caliper bracket, OE car spindle, OE ball joints, control 
> arms, K-member/frame.  Which piece is the weak link?
>
> Just for giggles I looked on eBay and there's a place called 
> Performance Online Parts selling a kit with what appear to be OE 
> spindles, calipers, brackets, new rotors, dust shields, lines, 
> bearings, seals and hardware for $379.  Go to the POL website and this 
> same kit is on sale for $370.  These appear to be the parts 
> recommended in the Mopar Action tech article.  I don't know who they 
> are, don't know where they get their parts and have never bought from 
> them - but I'd do this in a heartbeat before using a backyard conversion.
Here's the link:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-74-MOPAR-CHRYSLER-DODGE-DISC-BRAKE
> -CONVE 
> RSION-KIT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem230481aa83QQitemZ150399462019QQpt
> ZMotor
> sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
>
> That's even cheaper than the list I posted in my 12/18 e-mail 
> including the dust shields (although I see new ones on eBay for 
> $55/set now).
>
> Apologies for the long read, but like I mentioned before, I get pretty 
> passionate when I think about brakes.
>
> SC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MO ( Steve Mick) [mailto:micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 2:48 AM
> To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: B body disc brakes
>
>
> I want to run this up the flagpole again. I had a couple responces, 
> One about future availability on 70-72 Ford Rotors  and a satisfied 
> Valient owner Any other input, And what is meant by a slider type caliper?
Any
> downside to those?   Thanks .................MO.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MO ( Steve Mick)" <micher@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:44 AM
> Subject: B body disc brakes
>
>
>>
>> Any opinions on SCAREBIRDS disc brake conversions?  They supply the 
>> bracket , adapters and instructions for $165. You supply the 11- 3/4
>> 70-72 ford galaxie front rotors and 94-99  Dodge Ram 1500 calipers.
>> You have to use 15" rims, but this combo sounds like some real 
>> stopping
> power.
>> I think they say the Dodge calipers is the slider type --Is that good 
>> and what does that mean?  I know you can put together a alll Mopar 
>> set up, but the kit appeals to me  for ease of assembly and not 
>> hunting down parts................... Thoughts 
>> please?................................MO
>>
>> ----
>> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
>> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
>> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
>> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
>> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
>> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>>
>> 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
>> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and 
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- 
> directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and 
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended 
> recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will 
> protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune 
> the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and 
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.
>
>
> 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.