RE: disc brakes - caution, another long read with part numbers and prices

[Steven Charette <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Warren,
	Didn't mean to come off so preachy, but I feel pretty strongly about
this.

	I did a little homework - I've been successful in the past (and
recently too) finding A-Body spindles with caliper brackets for $100/set.
Bill Reilly of Reilly Motorsports did studies on the F-M-J spindles and
concluded that the bump steer caused by the difference in geometry from the
A-Body spindles is negligible, so although Rick Ehrenhberg in the past felt
that they (the FMJ spindles) aren't suitable for the early B-cars, they in
fact are.  

	So you score a set of the aforementioned spindles, and search online
for good parts deals.  I usually just run up to the local Advance Auto to
pick up parts, but here is what I found on Rockauto.com
Similar prices can be had just about anywhere.

Raybestos Rotor/hub assembly		$47.79 ea
National outer Wheel Bearing #A2	  6.39 ea
National inner wheel bearing #A17	  8.05 ea
National wheel seal #6815		  2.60 ea
Dorman wheel bearing dust cap #13975  2.93 ea
Raybestos Left Caliper #FRC4103	 22.79 ea
Raybestos hose #BH36582			 11.28 ea

Part Subtotal				$101.83 per side or $203.66 for both
sides

Add to this your $100 investment in spindles with caliper brackets, plus the
hardware above, the whole mess recaps at:


Spindles/caliper brackets		   $100.00
Hard Parts					    203.66
Raybestos Semi-Metallic pads # PDG84M    35.79	(axle set)
Raybestos Hardware kit #H5516A		7.77  (axle set)

Grand Total					   $347.22

This is all bew brand name parts (calipers are rebuilt), other lesser known
brands are less expensive yet, and Rockauto (and others) often has
close-outs on good quality stuff.

You can even get nice shiny new dust shields from Master Power for 80 bucks,
if yours can't be cleaned and painted.  A brand new dual master cylinder
will set you back another $70-80 (get a rebuilt for less than $30), and if
you couldn't snag the proportioning valve from the car that donated the
spindles you'll have to use an external valve for another $50.

Maximum spent with new shields, master cylinder and proportioning valve is
$557 and change.  You can substitute reman or different brand parts to shave
some cost, and the more rebuilding/reusing you do the lower the cost gets.

When I did the set on my A-Body, I used the bearings that came with the
brakes I had cut off at a junk yard for $100.  I used Cardone reman calipers
(less than $20 each back then) and cleaned and repainted my dust caps and
shields.  I got gorgeous new rotors cast in Canada for a little over $20 ea,
IIRC.  The stock dual master cylinder drum brake proportioning valve
couldn't be tuned better.  With the reman '76 Dart master cylinder I was
just over $200 including new lines for the line lock.

One note from personal experience - get good quality (read that Made in USA)
caliper hold-down hardware.  Only a couple bucks more than imported stuff
that I have had problems with in the past - consider the prospect of the
caliper jumping up out of the bracket over bumps.  Not cool.

If your pockets are deeper or you don't like chasing parts you can get this
entire setup from Master Power for $1050.

I've been gathering parts for both the '62 Wagoon and the '64 Savoy and
picked up FMJ (Aspen/Volare, Diplomat/Gran Fury, Mirada/Cordoba) spindle
setups for both cheap.  I grab bits and pieces when I see them on sale
(going back to Rockauto now for some closeout deals) and will have
everything ready to go when I start assembly.

Best of luck with your project.  Brakes are probably the most important, yet
often overlooked part of a build-up.  Going fast ceases to be fun when you
can't get it stopped.  Buy carefully and you can have great brakes at
minimal cost.

SC		


-----Original Message-----
From: Merwin Wrisley [mailto:vulcan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 4:06 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: disc brakes


All your points are valid and make sense. I believe I'll reconsider my brake
plans........Warren
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Charette" <stevec@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: disc brakes



I've been watching the Scarebird stuff for a while - their Mopar setup has
changed a few times, using different calipers, rotors, etc.   When I first
started looking they were Chevy Malibu(?) calipers, then Cordoba calipers,
older Chevy truck calipers, now the Dodge 1500... If they had a good setup I
don't know why they would keep changing it.  One of the setups used a
wafer-thin spacer to center the bearing on the spindle, which made me a
little nervous.

Other than that the caliper brackets appear to be made from 1/4"-5/16" thick
steel with welded-in nuts for caliper mounting.  I have CAD equipment and
every piece of machinery to make stuff much more sophisticated than what
I've seen on eBay but can't bring myself to take the chance.  Here's why:

The Chrysler factory parts were engineered to all work together and did so
quite well.  The lasted for decades and with fresh rebuild parts work like
new.  With the old slider type calipers and rear drum brakes I can haul a
3600lb car down from 120+ and make the first turn-off at most tracks.  If I
get a little over-exuberant on the pedal this setup will practically suck
the eyes right out of your head.

Although I have never heard of anybody having trouble with the Scarebird
stuff are brakes really the place you want to cut corners?  There are a
number of articles outlining ways to use Chrysler OE disc brake packages on
older Mopars and the parts are readily available, even inexpensive.  When it
comes down to it, even $700 for a Wilwood setup is a deal if you don't end
up wrecking your car, much less if you or someone else gets injured or
killed.  And to recall the legal thread that was just going around the other
day, how about if some low-life ambulance chaser finds out that you ran over
a kid on a bike because you pieced together a home-brewed brake system using
rotors from an AMC pacer and calipers from a Yugo?

And yes, there is somebody (SS Brakes?) who will gladly sell you the whole
factory Mopar setup for just over a grand.  Do a little reading and some
careful shopping and you should be able to do precisely the same thing
yourself for no more than 300 bucks.

I don't mean to crap all over Scarebird's kits; they may be the greatest
thing since the aluminum TorqueFlite.  I'm just saying that there are very
inexpensive conversions out there that are just as cheap or cheaper than
some Rube Goldberg setup that might have you picking your horn ring out of
your teeth.

Rant mode off.

SC



-----Original Message-----
From: greg solecki [mailto:gsolecki@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:49 PM
To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: disc brakes

Hi,You might be thinking of Scarebird,he sells on ebay different brackets
for different cars.I used them on my Valiant and they fit and work good.

   Greg

--- On Thu, 12/17/09, Doug Daniel <dougdaniel50@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Doug Daniel <dougdaniel50@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: disc brakes
> To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 6:41 PM http://www.ssbrakes.com/ go 
> to technical info
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Gary H. <spigot2039@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Gary H. <spigot2039@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: disc brakes
> > To: 1962to1965mopars@xxxxxxxxxx
> > Date: Thursday, December 17, 2009, 6:30 PM
> >
> > Do you remember the name of the company?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Gary H.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > > A company on ebay is selling adapters
> > that bolt onto
> > >the drum brake spindle and uses a rotor and
> bearings
> > from an early model galaxie LTD, and a caliper from a
> 1500
> > series Dodge truck. I haven't tried it yet, I'm going
> to.
> > It's a 'Buy it now' item. A porportioning valve
> isn't
> > included, but Jegs or Summit can supply that. Has
> anyone
> > tried this? Warren
> >
> >
> > ----
> > Please address private mail -- mail of interest to
> only one
> > person -- directly to that person. I.e., send parts/car transactions 
> > and negotiations as well as
> other
> > personal messages only to the intended recipient, not
> to the
> > Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect
> your
> > privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune
> the
> > content signal to Mopar topic. Thanks!
> >
> > 1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and 
> > http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>





----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.




----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.111/2570 - Release Date: 12/17/09 
08:30:00


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations
as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to
the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy,
reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar
topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html. 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

1962 to 1965 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html and http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/general_disclaimer.html.