RE: stall or high stall torque converters (RE: stall convertor)

[Earl Helm <ehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

As usual Don hits the nail on the head. To add a couple of aspects 
to all of this, one mis-conception many guys just getting into the sport

have is that if I put a 3800 rpm converter in my car it won't move until

the rpms reach 3800. In my altered I have a 5200 rpm stall converter and

it drives around the pits at just above an idle fine. With the newer
converter 
technology most guys won't notice a lot of difference with a good
quality 
2800 to 3500 converter on the street. Don't buy a cheap converter if you

are making any kind of HP or have a big block.

If you're going to race your car, there is a lot more to a converter
than just 
the torque and horse power curve. The suspension, tires and how you 
want to run your car are very important. Even though I have a 5200
converter 
in my altered, the power curve on my cam in 4400 to 7600 - instead of
launching the car 
on the converter (which would not be consistent run to run because of
the 
atmosphere and trans heat) I launch with a two step at 4400 rpms. This 
lets the power come up smoother, dead hook the tires every time and
makes 
the car more consistent. If I launched on the converter at close to 5200
and 
the track is good, all is well, but track conditions are not always
perfect, so 
I reduce the chance of wheel spin by launching lower. I do give up some
overall 
ET and speed, but the car is deadly within the thou run to run. That is
what 
wins bracket races. I win a lot of races against guys that launch at
high rpms 
with the converter loaded.

I use this same principal when choosing a street converter. On the
street it 
is more critical because of the varying traction conditions. Like Don my
stall 
is close to 3800, but in a street race I seldom foot brake the car
totally against 
the converter, I prefer to ease the rpms up to about 2500, and when the
light 
changes squeeze the throttle slowly arriving at full throttle about a
grand before 
it is time to shift to second. By that time the fat pipe car is in the
rear view mirror 
and I am enjoying the look on their face that says "we just got blown
off by a 
old man with a flat top and a four door Plymouth" (My favorite
expression I might 
add). Another mistake new comers make when picking a stall on their
converter is 
choosing a stall that is too low. IMHO it is better to err on the too
high side a bit. 
I can't tell you how many times I have heard this statement with fellow
Mopar guys 
and big blocks "I am not going to race, so I am just going to get an
1800 rpm converter" 
while I am trying to convince them to by a 2500 minimum. Two months
later the 
statement is always the same "I wish I had gotten a bigger converter" If
you are 
driving a big block Mopar, you are going to race it, even if it is on
the street, so 
don't waste money on a low rpm converter. Have fun guys....

Earl


hey Don,
just like chapter 5 in your book 'Old Reliable', that was just  
beautifully written, and well said!
I'm smiling, like I was in the car with you. (o:

thanks for that,
Schuyler

Schuyler 62 Dodge Dart 440 wagon w/ Poly 318
  <http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/ml-wrobel62.html>
FYI - I Do the Decal designs for the Poly head 318 and more! email me  
with your needs -
  <sky62@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>



On Jan 20, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Gary H. wrote:

>
> Hi all,
>
> I am posting this message for Don Dulmage, who is having e-mail  
> issues.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary H.
>
> ==============================================
>
> Every engine has a power band, a sweet spot or an area it runs best  
> in. When we design or build a car we want our engine to always be  
> in that sweet spot. If we are below the sweet spot or power band  
> the engine will bog or labour when we pull away.We don't want that  
> because the engine is not efficient there nor is it fun to drive.  
> Say we have a stock engine, a 318 for instance. Let us say just for  
> the sake of argument its power band is 1200 to 4200 RPM . Anywhere  
> in the band it runs well. Below it labours and above is not good at  
> all. This engine would need a converter stall of AT LEAST 1200RPM  
> and would need gearing so it could hit 120 mph at 4200rpm if we  
> expect it to be a normal driving car. If we gave it a bit more  
> stall speed it would pull away a bit quicker  but it can live with  
> 1200 stall. If we take say my 426 wedge with its 525 hyd cam and  
> 1100 RPM idle in neutral. We know it will have no power at1200 rpm.  
> It almost needs 1100RPM just to idle. If we put in in front of the  
> 1200 converter above and put it in gear it would probably not be  
> able to sustain an idle and would quit. If we try to drive it it  
> will have to go from the 1200 farting and kicking all the way till  
> it reaches the bottom of its power band somewhere around 3000 RPM.  
> The top of its power band is right around  6150 RPM so we gear for  
> 6150 at 120 mph.
> Just to be able to drive this vehicle we will need a stall of  
> 3000RPM so when the car is stopped at a stop light it can reach up  
> into its power band before it has to pull the car away. Once it is  
> rolling it is much easier to move then the converter will lose its  
> stall and become relatively locked up. The speed at which this  
> happens is coupling speed. We will be able to let it idle along at  
> 1100 rpm and it will drive the car and allow this engine with its  
> big cam to idle. Since we know that we might meet a Camaro or  
> Mustang along the way we are not happy with just being able to  
> drive it. We know that even though the engine's power band starts  
> at 3000 it has say only 220 hp there. By 3800 it has 335 hp so we  
> pop in a 3800 stall converter (From Frank Lupos Dynamc Converters  
> of course)  This gives a a car that will sit at the stop light  
> raggedly idling away at almost 1000 rpm (converter pulls it down a  
> bit.) and when the light changes we pull away niceley with no  
> trouble. HOWEVER! If we pull up to the light a Joe Mustang is  
> sitting beside jacked up on his converter  with that smart ass  
> sneer on his face we can push the brake pedal a bit harder and lean  
> into the throttle . If we hold the brake hard enough we can push  
> the engne to almost the full 3800 RPM and still be at the stop  
> light. We now have available on the release of the brake the same  
> hp as his sick little pony has on its very best day at its top RPM.  
> Come with me now as we finish the story.The car is protesting under  
> the strain. The light goes green and we lift the brake , The front  
> end rises as the car leaps forward. My wife is screaming from the  
> passenger seat shouting "I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU HAVE TO DO THAT! IT  
> HURTS MY NECK!!!!!!" I pretend not to notice. My neck is just fine!  
> The tach hits 6100 and I push the pushbutton marked 2nd. The shift  
> is firm and hard.(I feel sorry as I see Linda's head snap back and  
> forth. ("Hang in there baby!" I think." This wont be much  
> longer!")  I glance in the mirror to make sure the back window  
> didn't fall out on t!
>  he shift
> . Speed builds at an incredible rate and you can now hear the wind  
> going by the car . Once again the tach reaches for the 6100 mark  
> and I push D (for drag)  The shift is a bit different but definite.  
> I check the mirror. No Mustang or anything else in sight. By now my  
> wife is pounding my arm hollering "The're gonna put you in prison  
> one day!!!!" Satisfied all is well I lift. The car drops back down  
> on its suspension and eventually returns to normal speed . I idle  
> along about 30 mph .Just another old grey-haired man out for a  
> Sunday drive in his old car. I become in an instant the poster boy  
> for innocence. I turn to Linda and answer her first question softly  
> with an evil grin "Because I can!" She shakes her head and wipes  
> her brow. That my son is the stall converter story.
> When you settle down phone Frank and order one. Whatever he says  
> you should have. Sometimes if you tell him Don sent you it saves  
> you money so I have been told.
> Don D
>
>
> ----
> Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person  
> -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and  
> negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the  
> intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This  
> practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail  
> and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!
>
> '62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
> http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.
>


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person --
directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and
negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended
recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will
protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the
content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html. 


----
Please address private mail -- mail of interest to only one person -- directly to that person.  I.e., send parts/car transactions and negotiations as well as other personal messages only to the intended recipient, not to the Clubhouse public address. This practice will protect your privacy, reduce the total volume of mail and fine tune the content signal to Mopar topic.  Thanks!

'62 to '65 Mopar Clubhouse Discussion Guidelines:
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.org/mletiq.html.