Re: {Chrysler 300} Longer range changes for the 300K

Follow up to my fun day in Texas. I wound up driving the G convertible to both shows. A little embarrassing at the Packard show, as there were 40+ Packards there, and half the people came over to take lots of pictures of the G. I guess they had already seen many of the Packards before, so I was 'fresh meat' at their show.

I then went to the Killeen show and was going to leave early when one of the staff said, no, wait for the trophies as you are getting a first place combo for your class and also best engine bay for the crazy intake manifolds and the air cleaners signed by Herb McCandless and Don Garlitts. ;-)

All in all a great day of car stuff, and a bit of a sunburn.

On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 11:58 AM John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

hey Peter , got you covered , now 79!!
and like you , John , I bought a 62 dart 3i8 for parts for 200$ , had 100 k + miles , early 80’s — when restoring 2 1962 Polara 500 converts . Started driving it , it had a bad idle skip ? stuck valve ? After 2 k miles a few 100 mph bursts and mobil one , ran like new —stopped using oil .
unbelievably became my favorite driver for 8 years , “blend in “ faded green , felt like college kid in it . Good for illicit raising hell around Boston too —-no worries about dents. never fixed anything , never had to . Left 500 SL in garage .
An idiot cab driver cut me off from right at Logan airport merge ramp on purpose , big surprise for him ran right into his door with gas floored (! hah- look on his face priceless) . State Cop comes , i say oh sorry stepped on wrong pedal, happened so fast ! . . this gives you freedom . Bent dart bumper = totaled the new cab door . passenger in cab told cop cabby cut me off , no ticket .

Speaking of truly scary fast , put a highly built 440 in a 62 Dart . Did that in one of the 500’s . Slides all over the highway at 70 on downshift . But too old for that now .

Drove that green dart into Junkyard — “ free If you give me trans back “ ( a push button A block 727, as in good behind 392) , reason to junk was left headlight sheet metal and bulb fell out of the fender , hanging by wire . Rust was , Er, a problem on those ..
I grew to like the 62 look , rejected in the day ..
should have saved the dog dish hubcaps ..
john g

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 1, 2023, at 11:19 AM, John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I drove my 62 Plymouth 318 (which I bought in the late mid 80's for $300) from the Boston area to Mardi Gras in New Orleans, to an outdoor concert in Toronto, and then traded it to a buddy of mine for a 66 Dart. He then drove the 62 Plymouth along the Al-Can highway up to Fairbanks Alaska. He eventually sold it to a guy who used it to commute to work on the Alaskan pipeline. The entire time I owned it, all I had to replace was the water pump. I didn't even do tuneups all that often on the car. Great times. My wife drove a 62 non-letter 300 4 dr hardtop as a daily driver into the 90's for over 10 years, until we replaced it with a 62 NYer wagon due to severe rust issues. That NYer is still on the road in NH as of last year. I do have to admit to wondering from time to time about how far I am able to drive in a now 60 year old car as opposed to when it was 'only ' 35 or 40 years old (and I'm now in my 60's instead of my 40's). None of our cars were supposed to be here after this many years, but there are still folks driving around in their Model A's, but clearly not as many miles as members of this club put on. I'm going to the 40th anniversary Packard meet in Salado TX this afternoon, after going to a midday mixed makes show in Killeen. I think those Packard guys also drive their cars great distances. It's much easier/less stressful nowadays with cell phones and AAA than it was when I had neither, and only a toolbox and trunk full of spares at my disposal. I always make sure I have spare fluids (brake/oil/PS/trans/antifreeze), as you can limp yourself a long way if you just 'keep up the fluids'.

On Sat, Apr 1, 2023 at 9:41 AM 'Peter Pellicani' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello All,

I'm the new kid on the block (68 years old). My 1961 Newport still has a carburetor and points and has two hundred thousand miles on the original car. My 361 engine powered the car from New York to Colorado for college in 1975, at that time there was 153,000 miles on the odometer. I did replace the clutch before I left since that was the original one. You mention altitude, there is no higher spot than Pikes Peak, Colorado, My car climbed it! I was out there for three years and traveled in the mountains all the time. Stopped using the car as a daily driver in 1985. Presently, I have a 413 cross ram installed and I will always keep the carbs and dual points.

Peter 61 stick

On Friday, March 31, 2023, 10:26:17 AM EDT, 'Donald Verity' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I fall back on my 66 Imperial when the 88 Dodge PU or the 06 300C give me trouble. I can always count on the Imperial. If drive daily, like I do in the Summer, it starts with 1 pump to set the choke, and I drive away.
Don

Ok Guys,

I do understand your point. Probably better than you do.

Let me ask you all a question. How many of own a car made in the last 25 years? How many of you own a car made in the last 10 Years? How many of you own a car made in the last 5 years?

My point is that for the last 40 years I have owned and driven nothing, but cars made before 1967. The last 22 years nothing made after 1949.

Yes, a carburetor and points can run and run for thousands of miles. I am proof of that.

How many of you can start the carbureted car up and in 15 second go roaring down the block and not have the thing spit back at you until it warms up? Yammer, Yammer, Yammer, the old chokes never worked that well even when the cars were new. We all must let them warm up.

When ANYONE I know takes their Big Blocks up from the coast to Lake Tahoe, they have nothing but trouble at altitude. The A/F ratio is just off. You cannot buck the science of that.

If correctly implemented fuel injection is superior to carburetors for quick starting and moving and for providing an optimum A/F with changes in altitude. In addition, everyone that I know that has done such a change, with attention to detail, reports an improved mid-range throttle response.

Since this car is to be used as a daily driver and to tour the USA in retirement, I am looking for improvement in those specific areas for which no Carburetor can compete.

I also do not want to have to spend the next year buying a half dozen 3614S Carter AFB’s to find two that leaded gas did not sandblast the passages nor has bad emulsion tubes which leads to rough idle and other issues. It took a year, and me tripping across a NOS Cater BB, for the ’47 Desoto to get a good running carb after I did a diligent rebuild of four cores that still did not idle well.

I would humbly suggest that those who want to lecture me on the virtues of keeping the carburetor and ignition stock preface their comments as to if they have a “modern car” to fall back on for daily driving chores. Your comments would carry more weight with me if the answer were no.

James

From: Donald Verity <chryslerdon@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2023 06:46
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>; dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Henry Schleimer <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; 'Chrysler 300 List Server' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Longer range changes for the 300K

I agree completely, I drove my old 300G over 70,000 miles with points and carburetors. The only failure I had on the road was a failure of the rubber mounted crank pulley. It came apart and took out the trans cooler lines and the A/C and alternator belts. This was on the border of NY and CT. I had spare trans hose in the car and connected the lines together, bypassing the cooler. I had trans fluid in the car too, and filled it enough to get to the next exit, and an auto parts store. I bought a battery just in case, but drove all the way home to RI without having to use it. The car started right back up too. I sold the car over ten years ago to Mike Falcone, and as far as I know, it still has the same set of points in it and the carbs have not been touched. Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's not reliable.

Don

James-

I have a 62 Bonneville Vista I use the way you describe you want to use your K. The Vista is bone stock down to its breaker points and drum stoppers. I've overhauled engine, transmission and rear end. I dutifully maintain it and will drive it 500 miles a day, AC blowing. It has never occured to me that it would be a better experience were I to upgrade the car using modern work-arounds. I see the Bonneville and your K as carefully engineered to be the best they could be.

These off-the-shelf fuel injection systems are the product of extensive engineering - not to be excellent fuel injection - but to fit a lot of engines and work acceptably on them all.

The AFB works better than acceptably especially when you have the original or the right one, it was intended for your exact engine and car. That is what the list number means - for your car, not any car. AFB's are made and sold brand new as Edelbrock by Webber. Used originals are available.

The fuel injection in a box is for dozens of applications. I don't know anyone who has tried them and been happy. I hear quite a bit from folks who are disappointed.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 2:26pm
To: "Henry Schleimer" <henry.schleimer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "'Chrysler 300 List Server'" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Longer range changes for the 300K

Henry,

Since this is my 5^th 300K I am aware of its strong points and its weak ones.

Since I will be using this are the main driver, as if I had just gone out and purchased one in 1964, I need to address the weak points.

Also, since one cannot walk into an auto parts store and ask for a new Carter AFB or a new Vacuum advance or a new power steering pump and on and on…

I am trying to create a situation so that when I am on cross country trips it will not take weeks to get a part rebuilt.

In addition, for cross country traveling the AFB is VERY susceptible to altitude.

A throttle body EFI will take care of the cold starting much better and the EFI will deal with altitude changes.

I have restored cars. They are great for weekend drives and shows. But to rely on it as a daily driver and cross country mount in the absence of a “new car” I think requires dealing with a few of the weak points and the items that are not easy to get on short notice.

As you said, we shall see.

James

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Henry Schleimer
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 09:31
To: James Douglas <jdd@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: 'Chrysler 300 List Server' <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Longer range changes for the 300K

I must live a charmed life. My 78 Australian Chrysler still runs its Carter 2 BBL and Chrysler electronic distributor on the 265 Hemi six. I set the idle mixture screws with a gas analyser 20 years ago and haven’t touched it since. Every few years (if I remember) I put a drop of oil on the rotor felt. That’s it and it has never let me down. The only “problem” is the carb will dry out after sitting about a week and it takes about 4 cranks to get fuel. I can live with that. Plenty of oil pressure when it lights that way.

If it ever gives me trouble in the future I know how to rebuild the carb or distributor for very little money. I don’t know how to rebuild an expensive aftermarket universal fuel injection kit....

I also have a brand new car with gasoline direct fuel injection. I like how it starts when I press a button but don’t pretend to know how to fix it on the side of the road with a screwdriver... But at least the same engineers who designed the engine, designed the fuel injection and ignition as well.

I hope your plan is worth the trouble.

Cheers

Henry

From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, 30 March 2023 2:47 AM
To: Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Longer range changes for the 300K

At some point in the next six months, I am looking into pulling the Carter AFB and the Dizzy and replacing it with an MSD Atomic EFI, one of their distributors, 6AL box, and coil. For daily driving, cross country over the mountains, and the like it will be much more livable. Starting one in Lake Tahoe was a chore and the thing had little power until you got it up to speed. I remember that well as do all my friends with 4-BBLS or three 2BBL cars.

The one thing that is going to be a real PITA is the coolant temperature sensor. MOPAR did not make it easy to add one with a car that had air conditioning.

I am looking at a couple of solutions. None of them are great. One is to use the plug on the side of the block near the coolant hole on the driver’s side. The downside is crud screwing up the readings. Another possibility is to extend the 5/8 heater hose pipe up an inch or two and use a “Y” with one end for the heater hose and the other for the sensor. But this option may lead to the system being rich for too long as there is no flow unless the heater control is open. It is close the pump impellers and may be ok, but again, not sure.

The only other option and it is not a bad one, but an ugly one, is to use one of the Meziere Enterprises adaptors in place of the thermostat. It uses and AN fitting to go up to the radiator. It has two plugs on it that would allow for the sensors. They also sell an inline thermostat housing that goes in the hose to the radiator. The upside of this would be that I could change the thermostat without messing around with the A/C to get to it.****

If anyone has any other ideas, I would like to hear them. I am planning this on paper right now, all the fuel and sensor and linkage issues. In the end, I am looking for a plan that of course can be reversed should anyone wish to do it.

Best, James

****I do not remember if I told the story here. Every teenage boy’s worst nightmare. I had just turned 16. I had a date with one of the prettiest girls in the school. I took off to San Francisco in a 1971 Plymouth with a V8 and Air Conditioning. We came across the Golden Gate Bridge and soon after the car died. To make a very long story short, I had to push that car out of intersections for hours. We would drive and then it would stall. Cool then another 10 blocks and it would stall. This is no way to look “cool” when you are 16 and with a girl on a first date! In the end we made it to the concert at the Cow Palace on the opposite end of San Francisco and then back the 70 miles to our hometown. I was mortified the entire day. Turns out the thermostat stuck closed and caused vapor lock. Ever since I have HATED that buried thermostat on Chrysler Big Blocks with A/C. Perhaps the Meziere Enterprises inline in the hose unit would not be a bad idea for cross country trips!

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