Peter, James, and all, Thanks for sharing your experience with the Newport at Pike’s Peak. I’ve had my 300G in Lake Tahoe and Reno at least 8 times, and I don’t recall any problems with the altitude affecting performance. In fact, cruising around Reno (albeit a lower elevation than the summit @ 10,000 ft.) it ran exceptionally well, and I attributed it to better quality gas than what I can get in the Bay Area. I also don’t recall other 300 owners complaining about altitude related issues either at the meets held there. Not to diminish James’ issues with carburetor issues at higher elevations, but It seems like there may be more to consider before dismissing carbureted engines from performing well at high altitudes. The air is thinner, less dense, so theoretically the air/fuel balance would change, but I can’t say I’ve experienced problems with it. Bob J From: 'Peter Pellicani' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Hello All, I'm the new kid on the block (68 years old). My 1961 Newport still has a carburetor and points and has two hundred thousand miles on the original car. My 361 engine powered the car from New York to Colorado for college in 1975, at that time there was 153,000 miles on the odometer. I did replace the clutch before I left since that was the original one. You mention altitude, there is no higher spot than Pikes Peak, Colorado, My car climbed it! I was out there for three years and traveled in the mountains all the time. Stopped using the car as a daily driver in 1985. Presently, I have a 413 cross ram installed and I will always keep the carbs and dual points. Peter 61 stick On Friday, March 31, 2023, 10:26:17 AM EDT, 'Donald Verity' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I fall back on my 66 Imperial when the 88 Dodge PU or the 06 300C give me trouble. I can always count on the Imperial. If drive daily, like I do in the Summer, it starts with 1 pump to set the choke, and I drive away. Don Ok Guys, I do understand your point. Probably better than you do. Let me ask you all a question. How many of own a car made in the last 25 years? How many of you own a car made in the last 10 Years? How many of you own a car made in the last 5 years? My point is that for the last 40 years I have owned and driven nothing, but cars made before 1967. The last 22 years nothing made after 1949. Yes, a carburetor and points can run and run for thousands of miles. I am proof of that. How many of you can start the carbureted car up and in 15 second go roaring down the block and not have the thing spit back at you until it warms up? Yammer, Yammer, Yammer, the old chokes never worked that well even when the cars were new. We all must let them warm up. When ANYONE I know takes their Big Blocks up from the coast to Lake Tahoe, they have nothing but trouble at altitude. The A/F ratio is just off. You cannot buck the science of that. If correctly implemented fuel injection is superior to carburetors for quick starting and moving and for providing an optimum A/F with changes in altitude. In addition, everyone that I know that has done such a change, with attention to detail, reports an improved mid-range throttle response. Since this car is to be used as a daily driver and to tour the USA in retirement, I am looking for improvement in those specific areas for which no Carburetor can compete. I also do not want to have to spend the next year buying a half dozen 3614S Carter AFB’s to find two that leaded gas did not sandblast the passages nor has bad emulsion tubes which leads to rough idle and other issues. It took a year, and me tripping across a NOS Cater BB, for the ’47 Desoto to get a good running carb after I did a diligent rebuild of four cores that still did not idle well. I would humbly suggest that those who want to lecture me on the virtues of keeping the carburetor and ignition stock preface their comments as to if they have a “modern car” to fall back on for daily driving chores. Your comments would carry more weight with me if the answer were no. James From: Donald Verity <chryslerdon@xxxxxxx> I agree completely, I drove my old 300G over 70,000 miles with points and carburetors. The only failure I had on the road was a failure of the rubber mounted crank pulley. It came apart and took out the trans cooler lines and the A/C and alternator belts. This was on the border of NY and CT. I had spare trans hose in the car and connected the lines together, bypassing the cooler. I had trans fluid in the car too, and filled it enough to get to the next exit, and an auto parts store. I bought a battery just in case, but drove all the way home to RI without having to use it. The car started right back up too. I sold the car over ten years ago to Mike Falcone, and as far as I know, it still has the same set of points in it and the carbs have not been touched. Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's not reliable. Don James- I have a 62 Bonneville Vista I use the way you describe you want to use your K. The Vista is bone stock down to its breaker points and drum stoppers. I've overhauled engine, transmission and rear end. I dutifully maintain it and will drive it 500 miles a day, AC blowing. It has never occured to me that it would be a better experience were I to upgrade the car using modern work-arounds. I see the Bonneville and your K as carefully engineered to be the best they could be. These off-the-shelf fuel injection systems are the product of extensive engineering - not to be excellent fuel injection - but to fit a lot of engines and work acceptably on them all. The AFB works better than acceptably especially when you have the original or the right one, it was intended for your exact engine and car. That is what the list number means - for your car, not any car. AFB's are made and sold brand new as Edelbrock by Webber. Used originals are available. The fuel injection in a box is for dozens of applications. I don't know anyone who has tried them and been happy. I hear quite a bit from folks who are disappointed. Danny Plotkin -----Original Message----- Henry, Since this is my 5th 300K I am aware of its strong points and its weak ones. Since I will be using this are the main driver, as if I had just gone out and purchased one in 1964, I need to address the weak points. Also, since one cannot walk into an auto parts store and ask for a new Carter AFB or a new Vacuum advance or a new power steering pump and on and on… I am trying to create a situation so that when I am on cross country trips it will not take weeks to get a part rebuilt. In addition, for cross country traveling the AFB is VERY susceptible to altitude. A throttle body EFI will take care of the cold starting much better and the EFI will deal with altitude changes. I have restored cars. They are great for weekend drives and shows. But to rely on it as a daily driver and cross country mount in the absence of a “new car” I think requires dealing with a few of the weak points and the items that are not easy to get on short notice. As you said, we shall see. James From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Henry Schleimer I must live a charmed life. My 78 Australian Chrysler still runs its Carter 2 BBL and Chrysler electronic distributor on the 265 Hemi six. I set the idle mixture screws with a gas analyser 20 years ago and haven’t touched it since. Every few years (if I remember) I put a drop of oil on the rotor felt. That’s it and it has never let me down. The only “problem” is the carb will dry out after sitting about a week and it takes about 4 cranks to get fuel. I can live with that. Plenty of oil pressure when it lights that way. If it ever gives me trouble in the future I know how to rebuild the carb or distributor for very little money. I don’t know how to rebuild an expensive aftermarket universal fuel injection kit.... I also have a brand new car with gasoline direct fuel injection. I like how it starts when I press a button but don’t pretend to know how to fix it on the side of the road with a screwdriver... But at least the same engineers who designed the engine, designed the fuel injection and ignition as well. I hope your plan is worth the trouble. Cheers Henry From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] At some point in the next six months, I am looking into pulling the Carter AFB and the Dizzy and replacing it with an MSD Atomic EFI, one of their distributors, 6AL box, and coil. For daily driving, cross country over the mountains, and the like it will be much more livable. Starting one in Lake Tahoe was a chore and the thing had little power until you got it up to speed. I remember that well as do all my friends with 4-BBLS or three 2BBL cars. The one thing that is going to be a real PITA is the coolant temperature sensor. MOPAR did not make it easy to add one with a car that had air conditioning. I am looking at a couple of solutions. None of them are great. One is to use the plug on the side of the block near the coolant hole on the driver’s side. The downside is crud screwing up the readings. Another possibility is to extend the 5/8 heater hose pipe up an inch or two and use a “Y” with one end for the heater hose and the other for the sensor. But this option may lead to the system being rich for too long as there is no flow unless the heater control is open. It is close the pump impellers and may be ok, but again, not sure. The only other option and it is not a bad one, but an ugly one, is to use one of the Meziere Enterprises adaptors in place of the thermostat. It uses and AN fitting to go up to the radiator. It has two plugs on it that would allow for the sensors. They also sell an inline thermostat housing that goes in the hose to the radiator. The upside of this would be that I could change the thermostat without messing around with the A/C to get to it.**** If anyone has any other ideas, I would like to hear them. I am planning this on paper right now, all the fuel and sensor and linkage issues. In the end, I am looking for a plan that of course can be reversed should anyone wish to do it. Best, James ****I do not remember if I told the story here. Every teenage boy’s worst nightmare. I had just turned 16. I had a date with one of the prettiest girls in the school. I took off to San Francisco in a 1971 Plymouth with a V8 and Air Conditioning. We came across the Golden Gate Bridge and soon after the car died. To make a very long story short, I had to push that car out of intersections for hours. We would drive and then it would stall. Cool then another 10 blocks and it would stall. This is no way to look “cool” when you are 16 and with a girl on a first date! In the end we made it to the concert at the Cow Palace on the opposite end of San Francisco and then back the 70 miles to our hometown. I was mortified the entire day. Turns out the thermostat stuck closed and caused vapor lock. Ever since I have HATED that buried thermostat on Chrysler Big Blocks with A/C. Perhaps the Meziere Enterprises inline in the hose unit would not be a bad idea for cross country trips! -- -- -- -- -- . -- For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Chrysler 300 Club International" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to chrysler-300-club-international+unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/chrysler-300-club-international/034001d964d0%246024a610%24206df230%24%40comcast.net. |
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