Re: {Chrysler 300} Compression Test

Kurt ,

I am so glad you and Dominick connected . I have had a few brief interactions with him , he is the best of the best . A really bright guy who is also truly hands on , and I believe he is the second generation doing this work .

You don’t set an NHRA record (10’s!!!!) in a highly competitive national class (that holds) by sitting in an armchair talking —-Building the engine personally ,,alone, and driving the car too . We have many armchair experts , especially around our camshafts and rams . Your choice of modern cam technology from comp guided by Dom and larger exhaust valves is perfect .—- what did you do for lifters? What duration did you choose ?

I had pointed out before , that the stock “as chrysler built it J “ had modest cam duration ( 268) compared to other 300’s despite shorter “ hi rpm” rams ( hello out there!) yet was the highest specific output non race B block chrysler ever made ( 390 from 413 , — it took the six pack 440 cubes and 3 carbs to match it ) . I built a J once , went a bit too far ,on “just a little more “ cam , it blew all the belts off all the time , top of first , cost me radiators and fans —if I really got into it .It chirped tires at around 90 on 2-3 shift and squirreled around too if I remember right .(Once it wound up , laugh)

because I thought —common wisdom all over the place then —still — but NOT so wise that short rams need a lot more cam “ to work “ (?then why did long ram have more duration ?** Opposite to “ story” right?) . More cam always needs more rpm .

Truth is , while there is that hi Rpm action , large passages in J intake and large exhaust manifold work everywhere in useable rpm on J = big fat torque curve moves the car - if you use a modest cam ( as chrysler knew) not go for a paper high horsepower number at high rpm , —which remains a paper claim without a 4-6 speed transmission and very loose converter or high axle ratio to use it . ( like hellcat or LS)

I had some occasionally heated talks with George on this back then , ( “ matching cam to ram” stuff ) . It’s a full system level car performance issue , not a max hp number issue . I like to learn , interacting with smart guys like Dom you learn . Some of the statements made back then made no engineering sense . Still don’t . Dylan said it best “ she knows too much to argue or to judge” . ☮️

On your engine , when I was 18 I bought a “354 “ from a guy for 100$ ( ok 1000 + now ) it turned out to be a 54 Desoto . Cheap lesson for 18 yo. My dad buried it in back yard … years later .

Anyway your car will go like hell, the “new J champion “ comes to the front — out of Maine ! You Might look into some deep groove pulleys , even a few help . Paint them black and get rid of two valve cover bolts , call it ” all stock” ( only laughing) . Who would do that ? (Inside joke )

Can’t wait to see it . I have a few cars in the cooker too , we need a 12 second 300 to keep our flag high . But one gets old too fast …” chase two rabbits you catch neither “ is catching me …

John

Ps max wedge intake is the evolution of all this , almost no rams left but huge holes right into those one off max wedge head ports . Often said to be “ too big” by the armchair . Maybe Dom thinks otherwise !

**imho because they could not show a drop in adv hp in 60 compared to 59 if they had used a torque cam , probably 265 to use long ram at 3600 or so highway passing best . Long ram absolutely chokes it at high rpm . Loses 50 hp on 440 on dyno compared to single 4 bbl . Saw with my own eyes. So they threw in a cam got the larger number but at higher rpm than ram tune .

400 F fixed that but dog off the line if it would have run at all with old automatic . J fixed all this … just as they built it .

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2022, at 12:20 AM, Keith Langendorfer <keith_a_lang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Folks

I agree with John and Danny that the acumen and experience of the machinist and machine shop rebuilding your engine is paramount and, alas, a seemingly dying art, when “slap-dash” rebuilds or (more likely) crate engines are the norm these days

To wit: I bought George Riehl’s “Killer K” engine as you may recall (from a previous club newsletter) to put into my 4 speed K several years ago. I bought it thinking that all the things George had said he did to that engine in an early 2000’s article he had written for the club newsletter were actually done (.030 over, 1.74 exhaust valves, balancing, etc.) Upon sending the engine to club member Dominick Rinaldi here in Maine for a quick inspection as I thought I’d be able to install it “as is” with a few new pieces (primarily a new oil pan and the addition of short cross rams), it turned out that George’s description of the work that was done was untrue and a fabrication, sadly and disappointingly for me as a club member (and also for my wallet.)

Thankfully, Dominick has used his expertise and Mopar acumen to build that engine into what will be a fitting replacement for the original 413/360 that’s currently in the car with the complete short Ram setup, an actual .030 overbore w/ new pistons and rods , cc’d 906 heads (from member Don Petty) now with 2.11/1.81 stainless valves, Comp Cam, full indexing and dial-in, etc etc . Dominick’s expertise and knowledge of how to go through our engines (and transmissions etc) during a refresh or rebuild is something to be thankful for.

As you longer term club members can probably appreciate, It is painful for me to share this experience (on several levels) but on the plus side, I need to express Major Kudos to the Rinaldi’s - we’re lucky to have them in the club.

Keith

On Sep 4, 2022, at 8:48 PM, dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

I'll second that. A good running engine should never be taken apart unless it is worn out or broken. By worn out I mean fouled plugs, oil consumption, visible smoke, lack of power.

If engine condition is keeping you up at night send a sample to an oil analysis firm. The report will tell you exactly what is and is not in the oil together with concentrations thereof. It will show what metals, how much fuel, antifreeze just about everything a blood test reveals about us. Many of my friends use these services.

As John said you are at the mercy and subject to the acumen of the machinist. Given the dearth of skilled workers older machinists who have seen a Chrysler V8 from our period are few and far between. Besides, your test was invalid based on your description.

Danny Plotkin

-----Original Message-----
From: "mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx" <mgoodknight@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2022 10:58am
To: jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx, allynentertainment@xxxxxxxxx, chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Compression Test - 413

Pay very close attention to John Grady's recommendations and his analytics involving supposed need for engine rebuild based on the results of a compression test. He's RIGHT ON!!!
All too often the results a grossly flawed, not only because of errors in procedure, but also because of errors in knowledge of how to interpret the readings.
Important clues regarding condition of engine are numerous: rate of oil consumption, smoothness of engine at idle and especially loaded at slow rpm, noise from valves, noises from crankshaft bearings (rods and/or mains, oil leaks can be a clue, but not usually indicating mechanical trouble, difficulty in obtaining consistent/satisfactory ignition timing (suggests timing chain wear likely). Listen to the engine's exhaust-----all 8 cylinders should sound nearly the same. Leaky exhaust valve will likely make an audible WHOOSH sound each time that cylinder has compression/combustion, intake valve leakage is uncommon and not easy to detect by sound. Loose pistons (worn cylinders) might give an audible light thump as slow idle when cold, but likely will go away as warm-up occurs. Aircraft engines usually have quite audible piston noise for a few minutes after start-up (air cooled engines generally have very loose fit pistons compared with liquid cooled engines.

Please note: message attached

From: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Matt Allyn <allynentertainment@xxxxxxxxx>, Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Compression Test - 413
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2022 09:20:42 -0400

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