Re: {Chrysler 300} Antenna

In high school in southern CT in the early 70's, my girlfriend and I got into trouble when we stayed out 'late' on a school night because we were parking in my dad's 63 Plymouth. We were listening to some great music on what turned out to be WCFL in Chicago, which was on central time. Thus we both got home an hour later than we should have in the Easter Time Zone.

My dad didn't understand, and asked me to put on the station for him the following day, which of course I could not do at 4 in the afternoon. He was not interested in going out to the car at 11 pm to listen to my 'evidence'. ;-)

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 6:19 PM 'Michael James' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Love it! My 59 Olds has a glove box mounted pop out transistor radio that still works (maybe 2 stations) with AA batteries.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sunday, November 21, 2021, 4:03 PM, Ray Jones <1970hurst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
OK, off topic a little, but I had, back in the day, a 1951 Merc conv, customized, and installed a black phone handset and hang-up thingy on the dash. Wired it to the speaker, and had the radio playing through it. Lots of fun pulling up to a group of folks, picking up the handset, and then saying "It's for you" and handing it to someone.
The look on their face when they heard the radio "talking" to them was a Hoot.

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 3:50 PM Carl <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Most young folks listened on small transistor radios by the early 60’s or on car radios, yes. Emphasis on mid-range frequencies. But by mid-50’s “high-fidelity” all the rage (monophonic) then stereo by late 50’s and finally FM multiplex stereo transmission by ’61.   So in the home environment, our parents were interested in “hi-fi” and the recording engineers catered to that market. Even in Rock ‘n roll – “wall of sound” 360 stereo effect on many 60’s recordings, lots of reverb, etc. Obviously analog recordings but very wide frequency range possible using RIAA curve –to fit the physical LP vinyl record - the playback equipment decoded that (bass boost/treble cut) but could get 20-20000 Hz response recorded. What was limited was “dynamic range” i.e ratio of loudest to softest sounds due to physical size of record – irrelevant in digital providing enough bytes available. Also signal to noise ratio limited – lots of tape hiss- original master recordings on open reel tapes. Can be processed by modern digital technology to remove hiss – Dolby noise reduction early version -made cassette tapes hi-fi.

Early FM car radios all monophonic. Factory FM stereo car radios not available until 1968 for Chrysler Corp., in the Imperial.

Carl

From: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 2:24 PM
To: John Grady
Cc: Carl; Bob Podstawski; finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Bob Merritt; chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Antenna

It is said that most mid century recording engineers had the ultimate goal of making a record sound as good as possible on a Delco radio. Most of the country was listening on one. It is interesting how sensitive and high definition (to use todays term for high fidelity) our old radios are.

Based on the above from the experts i have to assume I need to trim my radio to work with the new antenna lead given my car was delivered with a front antenna.

Thanks for the education.

Danny Plotkin
-----Original Message-----
From: "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 2:50pm
To: "Carl" <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Bob Podstawski" <bobp8@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bob Merritt" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Antenna
Carl is 100 % correct ; and the cables are very important ; the AM band in such that the cable capacity to ground ( made minimal by that fine wire drawn into a tube loose .. it is not coax cable ) —can be made part of a resonant circuit in the input of the AM tuned antenna coil , why you adjust that trimmer to peak at 1400 . The AM band when tuned by capacitors is using like 350-370 uuF The capacity of the cable is on the order of tens of uuF . So we can live with that . But at FM frequencies that is almost a dead short to ground , the total tuning range of FM capacitors for tuning is only 10-30 uuF . 30 in the cable would kill it . So other approaches are used , —in cars generally FM is almost always essentially untuned “ low impedance” wideband input to amp and very sensitive FM front ends. To send high frequency like FM over longer distance , the cable requires “ matching “ the impedance of the coax ( like RG-6 catv ) 50- 75 ohms or like 300 ohm twin lead and a matched 300 ohm antenna too . ( the old folded dipole ) . But then you may need an amplifier at antenna or an antenna with known matched ohms to avoid losing signals . Note that as Carl says , the wavelength of FM is like 30” almost the same as the cable length in the car from radio to antenna . AM is closer to 500 - 800 feet wavelength , 10 feet of cable is ok then, does not even look like a cable to the AM , just a capacitor that can be tuned out .
This stuff gets way more complicated , ( band width front end design etc) but getting back to what to do , they used to sell like a thin wire in scotch tape you stick to windshield , very short wire to radio , for FM ; I think some GM have that . Or shortest wire you can to AM mast pulled to 39” . Yes it works — if not right , but not as well .
I bought some 70’s era Motorola and Sparkomatic FM to AM converters trying to keep 300 F radio . Sort of work , but nowhere near modern FM . And as Carl alludes to — AM radio performance today in a new car is a joke compared to our tube radios when working right . They are well designed —there will be solid stations end to end if radio is perfect at night . Tubes are almost never ever bad , (!!) but corrosion in tube sockets is common . wiggle back and forth or even better toothpick and silicone grease on each pin put back in . Loose antenna connection / corrosion in antenna base also kills it . Check with ohmmeter —- pin at end of cable to mast should be almost zero ohms. Plus today heavy interference in AM band is the rule , automatic volume control in our radio hears that noise , thinks it is a station and cuts sensitivity way back ... Try engine off in the country some night . Like it was ...
Other stuff goes wrong —-too long for here , worst is mice piss from on top through vent holes ruins the PC card and some fine wire coils ; not uncommon if stored .
In Boston we listened to WMEX ( Arnie Woo Woo Ginsberg , )but it faded later in night , but WPTR Troy NY , 50 kw clear channel would start coming in , even better than WMEX . In 57 dodge , essentially same radio . I Hung around Big Burger Ranch , every one there ( 40 cars?) has PTR on by 11pm . Was just like American Graffitti very single night !
Just too many chevy guys.. smile.
There is a station in Toronto , some guys’ personal thing , about 720 AM plays great 60’s music . Sky bounce might let you hear that at night , generally 200-500 mikes away ! Otherwise AM is lame now.
On 21 Nov 2021, at 1:21 pm, Carl <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The 30” length (actually closer to 31”) is a compromise for the middle of the FM frequency band (98Mhz in the USA) where that length matches one-fourth of the wavelength. Lower frequencies like 88 MHz would match to an antenna a couple inches longer and higher frequencies like 108 MHz would match to an antenna a couple inches shorter.

The radios have sufficient sensitivity that a precise match isn’t necessary. I used to design and built my own yagi FM antennas in high school for “DXing” which is the arguably nerdy hobby of picking up distant radio stations. FM signals are at a high enough frequency (located just above channel 6 on the old analog TV lower band) that the signals tend not to bounce off the atmosphere and are restricted to somewhat “line of sight” from the transmitters, with some exceptions due to weather conditions.   Those exceptions are called tropospheric ducting or tropospheric propagation, when the FM and old analog TV signals would sometimes strangely travel for hundreds of miles for a few minutes or hours. AM signals, on the other hand, are at a much lower frequency (KHZ vs. Mhz) with very long wavelengths that will bounce off the atmosphere at night, every night, allowing one to hear stations from Mexico and Cuba that are allowed to transmit at up to 10 times the power of US stations. Back in the day folks would listen to AM stations from across the country at night. Hence, some stations were “clear channel” at night so they could be heard many hundreds of miles away. In Chicago, we could receive stations from Canada, Mexico, Cuba, the Caribbean, and from Boston (WBZ), New York (WABC), New Orleans, Dallas, and many other locations. I liked KAAY 1090 in Little Rock, a great rock ‘n roll station in the early 1970’s. The AM car radios of the day were highly tuned RF amped circuits with exceptional sensitivity and selectivity for long distance reception. All, of course, before the days of digital tuners.

Anyway, when Chrysler introduced the AM/FM radio for their cars, a Delco model of very high quality (January of 1963 for Chrysler) the antenna was front fender mounted (no power option), standard on New Yorker Salon and optional on other models. It may have included a fixed length antenna of 31” (can’t remember offhand). The AM only radios were matched to the antenna via an antenna trimmer adjustment for maximum reception, with the antenna set a 40”, regardless of front or rear mounting.

Carl Bilter

From: Bob Podstawski
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 9:18 AM
To: dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; John Grady; Bob Merritt; chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Antenna

FM antenna should be 30” for max reception. Cables are shielded and are of no consequence in my understanding

On Nov 21, 2021, at 9:14 AM, dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Except for remote adjusting mirrors most mirrors were installed on the car, at delivery, with the driver behind the wheel who would say "that's good" as a tech moved it about the fender. I have a 63 Galaxie with two mirrors that show nothing at all of value to driver.

My F radio with rear antenna picks up one station and I'm in a metro area, so I tend to agree the long lead in might be a problem. Generally FM can be picked up with even no antenna if the signal is strong given the tiny wavelengths. AM really needs an antenna to work.

-----Original Message-----
From: finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 8:33am
To: "'John Grady'" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Bob Merritt'" <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: {Chrysler 300} Antenna
My Parade Green C was ordered with twin rear antennas but was cancelled at the factory for some reason and the code for that was stamped (XXX’ed) out on the data tag.
Weird Huh?

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2021 7:28 AM
To: Bob Merritt <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Antenna

I wondered about that , perhaps when you ordered power due to size it just went to back ? Like noted already? which I think looks great , as do twin antennas on the fins on D . (? what about that ?) However if you upgrade the radio to FM within the F housing ( another story ) I do not think FM likes the long antenna cable . It can be tuned to work on AM but may be a problem on FM .
There was a rumor back then that as radios got better in AM ( ours are pretty good) that static from the engine was picked up a lot more with front antennas , probably true . I saw a service bulletin once about jumping around the hood hinge with a copper wire , —- I am not sure when suppressor wires came in too . If you look at old JCW catalogs there are a lot of period devices “ to cut static “ . Corvettes really suffered from this— why all the shielding .


related to the right mirror , I have a car wherein the mirror seems on correctly ( same as other side) but the glass will not turn enough clockwise looking down on it to aim it right ? becomes a decoration .

May be aftermarket , but looks period(?) but no other holes in fender and both sides match ( relating to where they put them , if dealer ?)

Sent from my iPhone not by choice

On 21 Nov 2021, at 7:22 am, Bob Merritt <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Yes, the dealer installed the manual antenna and
the location varied.
My F has the manual antenna on the driver side front fender.

Bob

On 11/21/2021 12:20 AM, Nick Taylor wrote:
There isn't enough room in the front fender for the power antenna. They did put the power antenna in the fender on the Imperials. The power antenna is more protected in the trunk though.

Interestingly, the regular antennas did not come installed on the cars. The dealer installed them. I have a bulletin that covers it and explains that it is so they can take a radio from one car and put it in another that a customer wanted.

You'll see the manual antennas mounted in different places on the front fender. The dealer was supposed to use a template and it was different if the car had the right mirror. My 60 wagon came with the right mirror and the antenna is in the wrong place and hits the mirror. My 300F didn't come mirrors but the dealer installed them and the antenna.

On Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:25 PM Kim Garnett <chryslerf@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Why is the antenna on a 300F sometimes on the front fender and sometimes on the rear fender? --
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