Steven: Steven: The good news is your top switch is probably OK. Somehow, a +12V supply is getting to one of the pump leads. There are three “always hot” +12V. wires running from the circuit breaker to the back-seat area as listed below. Colors and wire ID’s are as per the service manual wiring diagrams. http://www.jholst.net/wiring/wiring.pdf http://www.jholst.net/64-service-manual/electrical.pdf Pages 95 & 103. - There is a three-wire wrapped set from the top switch to the circuit breaker and becomes a two-wire bundle back to the pump. It contains an always-hot wire black #12 wire (T1)plus the two #12 (T2 brown & T3 yellow) leads to the pump. This is the most likely source of a short from the black #12 hot wire to the brown or yellow pump feed. Find this bundle and disconnect the black wire which pokes out at near the circuit breaker from the circuit breaker behind the LH kick panel. If the pump stops, search for and find a black to brown or a black to yellow short in the bundle between the circuit breaker and the 3-pin connector. Strip back the fabric wrapper until you find it. Check the socket itself for deterioration or damage. If removal of the black wire from the circuit breaker does not stop the pump, proceed.
- There is also an always-hot #14 black wire (W3) running back to the LR power window switch (if you don’t have power windows-forget this step). This hot wire runs from the circuit breaker to the switch along with a multitude of other wires under the sill and into the rear compartment. Same as above. Disconnect the wire from the circuit breaker and, if the pump stops, search diligently for the source—or just splice in a new black wire. If this does not work to stop the pump-proceed.
- The third source of power is a pink #18 wire (M1A). It is always hot but emanates from the fuse block through the second fuse from the left marked LTS. Pull the fuse to see if the pump stops. (You might as well do this first as it is easiest). That wire runs from an eight-pin connector behind the kick panel, along with a yellow #18 wire (M2) to a two-pin connector under the back seat—and thence to the LH & RH courtesy lamps in the back-seat side panels. The yellow wire carries a ground signal from the door switches, and/or headlight switch and/or the map light switch. An additional pink #18 always-hot wire (M11) emanates from the afore-mentioned connector and goes to the trunk light. It should be out of the way, but you never know.
All this ends up looking like a rat’s nest under the LH sill and under the back seat, providing numerous places where two wires may be pinched together. Don’t give up on this as any short can produce catastrophic fire and damage. You are fortunate, in a way, to have the pump screaming MayDay, MayDay to you and us until the problem is found and resolved. I’m trying to imagine an internal defect in the pump motor that might short back through to wiring system to steal a power source—but I’m not coming up with anything there. If none of the three solutions above work, perhaps the motor is running on dilithium crystals or a flux capacitor. Best wishes. Remember, this is a learning process. As a result of this thread, I’m working on a full-color wiring schema for the back half of the car, only—with all accessories and options in place on one sheet. It is really complex with the possibility of eight bulbs, four reversible motors, rear speaker, reverberator and three switches on a loaded convertible. Coupes are a little simpler as the rear-window defogger motor is single-speed and not reversible. A lot going on (under) the back seat! I’m outa here. Rich Barber (M.E. piddling with DC circuits. Fire by wire.) Brentwood, CA From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Steven MacIsaac samacisaac@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 4:03 PM
To: Keith Boonstra <kboonstra@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 64 300 convertible help First of all, thank you all for your help and knowledge, it’s been invaluable. I removed the switch, tested the socket to confirm one hot and two (up/down) cold leads. Filled the reservoir, it is on the pump side(passenger side) and there is an access hole in the motor mount bracket. Still not easy to get to, I used and old turkey baster and that worked fine but was slow going. Plugged the motor in w the switch eliminated and the motor STILL RAN!!. Quick check told the red lead from the chassis was indeed hot, although it should not have been. So I’m kinda back to square one. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated Steve One thing that confuses some is that in your Chrysler positive 12V is fed at all times to the lights and motors of the body. Running or not running is then controlled by switches which merely provide ground, or negative 12V, to the various lights and motors. Therefore yes, probably what is going on is that you have a defective switch which is providing a ground - negative 12V - to the pump motor at all times. On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 11:03 PM, 'Ron Waters' ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Steve - It does indeed sound like the switch.. Best idea is to find a replacement. Also, you risk burning out the motor if the system is dry. I highly recommend filling the system, then bleed it by connecting and disconnecting the 'up' lead until the top is up. Then do the same with the 'down' lead. Then top off the pump. Good luck. Ron
From: Steven MacIsaac [mailto:samacisaac@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2018 10:51 PM
To: Ron Waters
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 64 300 convertible help Ron, I know the system is dry, not worrying about hydraulics until I get the motor side figured out, I turn the switch through it’s full range of motion, up/off/down etc several times and the motor continues to run, does not reverse or stop. I am am believing the switch is the problem but electrical is not my forte So when you say 'motor does not respond to switch at all', what are you saying ? That the motor doesn't run at all or that it runs continuously whether the switch is depressed or not ? Fiddling with the wires is not a good approach. You need to gain an understanding of how the circuitry works.To me, it sounds like the switch is shorted. So whether the switched is depressed or not, the motor runs. So that would mean that the switch needs repair/replacement. If the top doesn't move despite the motor running, then it's a hydraulic problem. Is there fluid in the system ? Has the air been bled out of the system ? Ron
From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steven MacIsaac samacisaac@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2018 8:44 PM
To: leslie miklas
Cc: Steven MacIsaac samacisaac@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]; Chrysler 300 List
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 64 300 convertible help Well the motor does not respond to the switch at all, so I guess the next step is to remove the switch and see if I can manipulate the motor by reversing wires etc Regarding those grommets - saturate them well with WD40 or the like. Let 'em soak for a day and keep them saturated .Gently pry up on the motor with a large screwdriver while using a small screwdriver to feed the "fat" end of the grommet thru the hole. Do one grommet at a time. Take your time and you maybe able to save them. If anyone has replacements, it will be Hydro-electric. Many different makes use the same mounts.Chrysler used them all the way up thru the 1980s LeBarons. Jeff Miklas On March 30, 2018 at 4:36 PM "Steven MacIsaac samacisaac@xxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Today I started to find out why my top doesn't go up or down under its own power. Removed the rear seat and lo and behold the motors unplugged. easy fix right?? not so fast, plugged it in and it runs constant. ignition off, switch off, top doesn't move, motor just runs. Any ideas?? Also looked into removing the motor so I can get a better look at it, looks like its held in place by 4 grommets which after 53 years will be destroyed in order to remove, are replacements available?? my service manual is useless on this area Life is Short. Break The Rules. Kiss Slowly, Love Deeply, Laugh Uncontrollably, Dance Joyfully, Forgive Quickly And Never Regret Anything That Made You Smile :)
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Posted by: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
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