RE: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K
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RE: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K





Chris:

 

Good summary and all makes sense—except that part about the air cleaner “storing” residual gases from the crankcase after shutdown.  I’m sure that was the state’s “logic” but the improvement over an open PCV system seems miniscule.  At some point, the absurdity of an activated charcoal canister to capture these gases became mandatory.  It probably works, but is it worth it?  I hate the concept of “If it can be done, it must be done.” 

 

I read you that our ’64 ram-engined 300K will not need to be retrofitted with a CA closed PCV system.  Apparently, the law has expired.  Hard to believe.  Don’t tell anyone.

 

Still wondering if there is anything special inside a CA air cleaner to filter the air going out the nipple to the rocker-arm cover during normal operation—or to route the pickup point for the air to a point inside the filter ring.  Otherwise, dusty air will be bringing particulate matter to be deposited in the rocker-arm cover—to be absorbed by lube oil.  I’m pretty sure I have seen little air-filter media pads mounted inside the air cleaner to filter the PCV air.  I also recall that PCV valves are calibrated to allow different air flows to different engines.

 

In the cold country, the PCV air will remain cold as it enters the air cleaner or vented oil fill cap.  The cold air (or almost any combustion air) will contain moisture which will be converted to steam and be sucked out when the engine warms up.

 

Rich

From: kmaniak@xxxxxxx [mailto:kmaniak@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:18 PM
To: c300@xxxxxxx; rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx; 300country@xxxxxxx; dave.dumais@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; jholst@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

 

I think we all need a lesson in the history of the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system so that we all have a proper understanding of the design and functionality.

 

Prior to 1961, the engines in our cars had a vent tube on the rear of on passenger side valve cover (V8 engine) to allow crankcase gases to vent to atmosphere.  Typically these gases were clean when the cars were new, but as the engines aged, the crankcase gases became smoky in appearance. Cars with worn engines emitted smoke vapor from places other than the tailpipes.  These fumes also contained unburned hydrocarbons and were quite smelly.

 

In order to reduce this residual polluted air coming from the engines, the PCV system was designed and installed starting in 1961.  These first systems were referred to as "open PCV" systems.  A hose was attached to a large manifold vacuum port on the base of the carburetor and attached to the PCV valve on the valve cover (the PCV valve replaced the old vent tube).  Manifold vacuum pulled the crankcase gases out of the crankcase, through the PCV valve, to be burned with the air/fuel mixture.  Make up "fresh air" was drawn into the engine through the vented oil cap.  This system worked well as long as the car was running and reduced the emissions of unburned hydrocarbons by, say 95%.  The only problem with this system was when the car was turned off.  Residual gas pressure in the crankcase would escape into the atmosphere through the vented oil cap.

 

The state of California wanted a cleaner PCV system.  This brought the advent of the "closed PCV" system, which was a legal requirement for all cars built for sale in the state of California (California cars) starting January 1, 1964.  The "closed system" used a "non-vented" oil cap with hose nipple and an air cleaner cover with a matching hose nipple, and a hose running in between the two.  With this design, fresh air was first drawn into the air cleaner housing, then into the crankcase through the hose and oil cap.  When the engine was turned off, residual gases now collected in the air cleaner housing with less escaping to atmosphere.

 

Vehicles with the closed PCV system have an air cleaner housing with a hose nipple that is used in conjunction with the hose nippled oil breather cap and connecting hose.  Vehicles with the open PCV system have an air cleaner without an air nipple and a vented oil cap, with a nonservicable, oil bath style filter built into the cap.

 

Up until the early to mid 1990's, California requires a mandatory retrofit of cars with "open PCV" systems to a "closed PCV" system.  This retrofit was required for "out of state" cars brought into the state of California at the time the car was registered into the state.  The retrofit was also required for automobiles currently registered in the state of California (registered before January 1, 1964) during a transfer of ownership.  

 

The unsilenced air cleaner for the 360 hp 413 had a hose nipple attached to the side of the air cleaner top on "closed PCV" equipped cars.  The silenced air cleaner used on all standard engine applications (361, 383, 340 hp 413) had the hose nipple usually attached to the air horn or the side of the top. Ram equipped engines may have had a hose nipple attached to one of the two air cleaners, and a hose nipple on the balance tube to suck crankcase air from the PCV valve.

 

Note - the PCV valve is a one-way check valve.  Manifold vacuum keeps the valve open to allow air flow.  However, should the engine backfire, causing pressurized air and possible flame to shoot towards the crankcase, the valve will close, preventing reverse flow back into the crankcase.

 

This should clear up most questions out there.

 

Chris the K MANIAC

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Barber <c300@xxxxxxx>
To: 'Bob Jasinski' <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>; 'Don Warnaar' <300country@xxxxxxx>; dave.dumais <dave.dumais@xxxxxxxxx>; Chrysler300 <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; John & Marilyn Holst <jholst@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Pinder, Chris <kmaniak@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, Mar 7, 2017 4:40 pm
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

The 1964 Parts Catalog lists only one air cleaner for the single-carb 1964 300K:  2463951 for VC2-300K, use w/Air Cleaner to Breather Pipe Hose.  It lists an air cleaner for (single 4-bbl 413’s) NY’s & Imps that is silenced:  2402672.  The 1965 Parts Catalog is similarly vague on the 413-equipped Chrysler 300.

 

The 1964 Service Manual states that the Closed Crankcase Ventilation valve is connected to the throttle body.

 

I don’t have anything to go by and am curious.  Was there another supply-air hose running from inside the filter element on the air cleaner to the oil filler/crankcase breather cap so that only filtered air would enter the crankcase?

 

The 1964 Parts Catalog did show one special air cleaner California-only for Plymouths and Dodges with a 426 CID engine (not designated as a hemi)—and, also, designates two different RHS air cleaners for ram-engined 300K’s—with & without a connection to a Breather Pipe Hose.

 

So, for FirePower 360 HP 413’s--do we have silenced and unsilenced, CA and non-CA, same as NY & Imp?  Pix of documented OEM air cleaners on FirePower 360 engines in and outside of CA would be helpful.

 

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Bob Jasinski' rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 8:32 AM
To: 'Don Warnaar' <300country@xxxxxxx>; dave.dumais@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

 

 

1961 was the first year for smog equipment on California sold cars.  The 1961 Chrysler service manual shows the ram intake PCV valve.

 

Bob J

300G

 

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Warnaar 300country@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 4:52 AM
To: dave.dumais@xxxxxxxxx; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

 

 

Dave,

 

Could it be that the smog regulations in CA started in 1965?  With no snorkel, there would be no hose connection to a PCV valve.  Would be interested in hearing from people in CA who would know when the regulations changed.

 

Don

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 1:37 AM

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

 

No snorkels on a 64 K. Perfectly round

 

 

That's the way the air cleaner housing is on the 300L.  The L came with an unsilenced air cleaner not much bigger in diameter than the filter cartridge itself.  The snorkel, if you want to call it that, is about a half inch in diameter and one inch long with a black plastic or rubber cap.  Bought my L new in NJ and it had no hose from the snorkel to a PCV valve.

 

Those with a 300K will have to chime in on this one.

 

Don Warnaar

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: 'David Schwandt' finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]

To: 'Harry Torgeson' ; 'Chrysler 300 List'

Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 5:22 PM

Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

 

 

300K should have no snorkel

Unless sold in CA, Then I believe it may have a nipple for the hose going to the carb??

Dave Schwandt

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Harry Torgeson torg66@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 4:15 PM
To: Chrysler 300 List
Subject: [Chrysler300] 1964 300K

My single 413 4 barrel air cleaner has one snorkel, I do not know if that's correct on the car?

Thanks Harry

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Posted by: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>


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