Re: [Chrysler300] K exhaust manifold damage repair & the gong show
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Re: [Chrysler300] K exhaust manifold damage repair & the gong show

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On May 27, 2015, at 2:29 AM, "'Rich Barber' c300@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]"<Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I agree 100 % Rich ; might add that water heat like 405 F seems to me a better way . It just cost more . That way reaaly hot exhaust ( race) does not fry or melt rams and/ or cut power . 
On fixing cast iron , gas braze is worth looking at .. FAr less brittle than  weld and strong as all get out if done right . Somewhat malleable . Depends  on job , pieces etc . welding cast iron tricky must be preheated a lot or stress remains it cracks . Cool
Down evenly matters . On flanges make thick ones at machine shop . Did this on C 4 bolt flanges ; used smaller diameter stainless bolts with nuts / washers . You know why. 
> The intake and exhaust manifolds for our 300 ram K car are awaiting installation of the proper engine and so are accessible for viewing.  The exhaust manifolds are beautiful header-type castings with cast-in four-bolt outlet flanges having 2.3” +/- bores.  On one of my exhaust manifold outlet flanges two adjacent bolt holes are damaged with the outer 1/3 or so torn out—most likely by a muffler shop guy trying to line up the exhaust pipes which are tied together with a small cross-over tube.  The flange could have used a little more meat in the bolt-hole areas.
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> I anticipate the muffler shop carefully aligning the flange on the inlet of the exhaust pipe with the flange being welded to that pipe after fitment.
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> My question is:  Is repairing these cast-iron manifold outlet flanges by welding up the damaged bolt holes and re-drilling them appropriate and can it be done so as not to weaken or damage the manifold outlet flange and area?   Would this best be done in a muffler shop or a welding shop?  I’m sure there is a welding procedure for successfully repairing the damaged flange and I’m guessing the entire casting might have to be pre-heated.  I might even have the welder add some metal around the undamaged bolt holes to beef them up.
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> I’ve just taken some pictures of the exhaust manifolds and can e-mail them to the curious.  Recipients will note the strategic locations of the inlet and outlet ports for the heat tubes that route hot exhaust gas into and through a plenum under each carburetor.  Using exhaust heat to heat the intake manifold is also used in the hemi’s.  In both cases, there is no direct way to regulate the heat and the design certainly often results in an overheated charge which limits maximum power.  
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> I’ve seen controls in piston aircraft labeled “Manifold Heat” which I think is just used to overcome carburetor icing—but it is obviously adjustable—possibly a stream of hot exhaust gas or coolant.  I believe current auto engine technology very carefully controls inlet air temperature to achieve best performance, drivability and lowest emissions.  Replacing carburetors with computer-controlled fuel injection has achieved everything Chrysler thought it would accomplish in 1958.  Execution, electronics and technician support were apparently lacking.  A fuel-injected hemi or ram-inducted ram big block would be something to experience.  Certainly, hemi’s have been injected for years at the drag strips.
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> I’m wondering if anyone has installed orifice plates in the heat tube flanges to limit exhaust gas flow.  Also if anyone has insulated the inside of the heat plenum to prevent burnout of the aluminum chamber.
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> Finally, the musically inclined may be interested to “note” that the off-engine short rams resonate like musical chimes when struck.  I’ll try to match the tone to that of a piano key and suspect the resonant frequency will be as Chrysler planned for the ram manifold.
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> 300K’ly,
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> Rich Barber
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> Brentwood, CA-Forward Looking to the Sparks meet next week.
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> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anna F Noia sa-noia@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 11:34 AM
> To: John Grady; 'Mike Zagata'; 'Tony Rinaldi'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Big Red
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> I'm not sure on the 405 F manifolds, but I do have the K exhaust manifolds and they are very different than the early long rams exhaust manifolds (log style). The J and K look similar to a 426 hemi cast manifold. They drop down, and back. with a four bolt hook up to the exhaust pipes. Sort of like the Max Wedge, except way down next to the transmission, not up against the firewall. The Max wedge exhaust manifolds went up and back, attached to the exhaust pipe at the firewall, then down and out to another 4 bolt cut out below the door, just before that cut out the piping went back to the mufflers and out the back. I loved that system on my 63 sport fury convertible. Anyway back to the J & K exhaust manifolds, I think they are the same, like I said I have the K style. They each have connection pipes to the "Short" long rams below the carb's, correct. Are these short pipes available from someone? One for the heat to the intake manifold the other for the heat return from the intake to the exhaust system. They both attach to the exhaust manifolds at various points along their length. I have the remains of one capped pipe and welded flanges on the remaining connections to the manifolds. I hope someone has these pipes available, if not, then a picture of them installed or not. I'm not sure if this question/request is on topic or not, I hope it's at least sort of on Topic "Exhaust Manifolds, etc...". I do need anyone's assistance that can help. Thanks in advance
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> Best Regards,
> Stephen A. Noia
> 1-408-210-4736 cell
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> On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 8:06 AM, "'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:
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> Read that article, seemed to be more than a few errors in the article, not the car? It looks like it has/had  a 405 F engine, in essence—and talks about  starting as a 61 changed to a 62? Are they not different wheelbases? Not sure of that, maybe someone did it? . But really nice job bringing that back. Thank you !!
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> Are 405 F exhaust manifolds the same as ram j, k?  Same as this? It seemed to me the 405 F engine was almost a hand built prototype for later 390 HP cars…I often wondered about exhaust manifolds in those years,  have no personal experience, beyond observing stock ram exhaust manifold  not very good.  Those 405 manifolds , the ideas anyway, probably later evolved to huge max wedge “up and over” castings  
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> I have written before on this site of vivid personal memories in 1962 of the Hot Rod Magazine spl 300 getting into the high 12’s , turning the fastest time of all ‘stock” cars at whatever BIG meet it was..faster than all of them , dozens of 421 poncho, 425 409 (and forget 406 etc fords, at that point). Not sure if rams, might have been same engine as big red? 
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> The reason it is so clear is the place I hung around , Donuts Please/Big Burger ranch (in Cambridge, Ma ..every night was like American Graffiti, drags from midnight on,  on route 2E at Lake st..; often 20 cars. We even had a painted line. That place was populated by about 25 60-62 Chevy guys, 1 61 or 62 ford, 4 or 5 57 chevs, a few 60-62 corvettes , some hot rods (including a 56 Plymouth “stock” convert  with a 413)---  (the  62 2dr Chev coupes with 327 or 409 were common) ---and me . I had a 300D 392 in a 57 D500 convert, Packard OD,  3;70’s, Velvetouch metallic disc, oil truck 11” 3800 lb  clutch./ —after blowing up two 325 D 500 factory stick hemis –they threw rods. ( 56-61 mopar trans column stick with pin syncros  is pure junk, another story)  . I did OK, best capture was a new 421 Pontiac tri power Ventura coupe. But could not match 425 409, w 4;56 . 
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> Anyway,, that year a big heavy 300 turned the lowest time of any stock car, maybe 12.9 , at Nationals, I rubbed it in,  on all those chevy guys like crazy. And it was an automatic!! ( the NEW aluminum 727!)  The first time ever an automatic had a faster time than a “stock” 4 spd stick , after it was all over ; early 727 62 racing automatics were unreal, really hard shifts, throttle type “detent” kick down, no dumb part throttle 3-2 downshifts----- later softened up. Would spin on 5-5500 rpm1-2 shift, like later J-K , but 57-62 body has far better traction than J-K at drags.. ( I had both..J spins really easy) 
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> Ha!! “an automatic Chrysler kicked yo poor chevy 4 spd  ass! “   
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> But the Chrysler did not win, because the guy was asleep on the line at the FINAL  run, against a Pontiac, --Chrysler turned the faster time but lost. Shortly after this, the smaller body cars took all this over..
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> To get a full size 300 from the normal 15’s into the 12’s is simply unreal. I think Ray Brock of HRM  was doing it..at the end running a cam over 290 degrees. We need to remember how that HRM car impacted a whole generation in 62-63 —including me ..the Daytona beach high speed runs were fading in 62, but a fast street quarter miler held everyone’s attention. No longer were 300’s known as “fast on the top end,  but dogs off the line” . 
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> Beach boys songs etc,-- 409, Jan and Dean’s Deadman’s curve, Granny’s superstock 413, little deuce coupe…etc etc set the tone 
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> By the way, fastest car in Cambridge/Boston  in those days was a 50 olds with 59 J2 394 olds hydrostick, 4:11 ( rumors it was stroked to 450 or so) , but way cool: it had center of tri carbs on gasoline, end carbs on methanol. He would put 2 lengths on anyone off the line with that 4:1 first gear in hydrostick..  50 Olds suspension ideal for dragging, long converging C channel bars rigid  from axle to trans U joint cross member . Some GM pickups have that too from this period. Car raises straight up, no spin, goes like hell. That guy was very smart….unbeatable on street. 2nd fastest was 55 T bird with 430” Lincoln in it. Could not get power to the ground. (typical of ford wheel hop) , often started in 2nd gear. 
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> In 63 one night a 426 beige Dodge 2 dr showed up,  3 speed stick. Max wedge , 4 bolt dumps and all, no back seat, I think fiberglass bumpers etc killed the fastest 13.1 sec chevy. Great days for MOPAR. I won 150$. Must have been 100- 150 guys watching this at 3AM, lot of $ bet, on route 3 north straight from 128 on ramp. 425 hp Chev blew up at top of third, about 6 feet behind Dodge, which was still in 2nd (~ 3;70) . Still remember 425 hp chevy headlights  jumping up and down at shifts..
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> Someone needs to make that HRM special again..and race it in nostalgia stock. …Do all the Chevies in , ----yet again..
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> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Mike Zagata' mzagata@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mzagata@xxxxxxxxxxx>  [Chrysler300]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 8:59 AM
> To: 'Tony Rinaldi'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Big Red
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> There is a 300B race car that many may not be aware of.  It was raced each week at Fonda Raceway in Fonda, NY (place where Shirley Muldowny started).  It was raced by  Mr. Shultis from Halcottsville, NY in “A” stock automatic and won its class each week for several years.  Mr. Shultis sold the car to Don Garlits and it resides in Don’s drag racing museum in Ocala, FL.  It may well be the most successful Chrysler 300 in existence.  Mike
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> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tony Rinaldi awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx>  [Chrysler300]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 7:50 AM
> To: ldmiklas@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ldmiklas@xxxxxxxxxxx> ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Big Red
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> "Big Red" will be one of two 300 Race Cars featured at the 60th Anniversary Macungie Meet. 
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> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://yho.com/footer0> 
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> At May 25, 2015, 9:22:12 PM, ldmiklas@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ldmiklas@xxxxxxxxxxx>  [Chrysler300]Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'> wrote: 
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> This months MOPAR COLLECTOR'S GUIDE (July2015) has an interesting article on BIG RED - Bud Faubel's record breaking '62 300 - now totally restored by Jim Kramer. Check it out!
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> Jeff Miklas
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>
> ------------------------------------
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Posted by: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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