Chris, I violently agree with you! My right side exhaust manifold valve may not even be there. I am assuming that if i had this, my cold performance would be better. Whoever installed the manual choke must have removed it andplugged the manifold sometime before i bought the car. The cars home of origin was Corvallis, Oregon. Mike Moore On Jan 30, 2014, at 8:18 AM, kmaniak@xxxxxxx wrote: John:
With all due respect, I feel compelled to offer a few clarifications regarding the manifold and carburetor set ups on the letter series Chryslers.
The in-line twin carburetor set up used on the E and H was designed in such a manner that the front two barrels of the rear carburetor was the primary fuel supply to the entire engine at start up and low speed operation. Therefore, there was need for only one choke, located on the primary barrels of the rear carburetor as Mike describes. The rear carburetor secondary barrels, and well as the front carburetor barrels, only opened after the primary barrels were at least one-third to one-half open. Both carburetors fed all eight cylinders simultaneously.
The cross ram engines differed from the in-line engines in that each carburetor only fed four cylinders. At start up and low speed operation, the primary barrels of both carburetors were required to operate, with each carburetor feeding only four cylinders. As such, two chokes were required, one for each carburetor. Given that the '60 & '61 cross rams had automatic choke pull offs, and each worked independently of the other, I can see how a lack of synchronization could really mess up cold start engine performance and drivability. And I agree that the manual choke set up used on the J and ram K provided synchronization. The manual choke was also cheaper to produce, and I think Chrysler was pushing "cheaper" when building the J and ram K.
Now I need to touch for a moment the subject of the "exhaust heat riser valve". To be clear, this special valve was a thermostatically operated butterfly valve installed just before the exhaust flange on the passenger side "log style" exhaust manifold. The purpose of this valve was to temporarily restrict exhaust flow from the right side of the engine and force a portion of the exhaust gases from the right side of the engine through the right cylinder head, then through the base of the one piece intake manifold, then out through the left head. This allowed the exhaust to quickly heat the intake manifold for quicker warm up and better cold start drivability. On engines with intake manifolds and carburetors installed between the cylinder heads, only one "exhaust heat riser valve" was installed on the right exhaust manifold. The cross ram engines did not have carburetors mounted between the heads. The cross ram manifolds included blocker plates that capped off the upper center exhaust ports in each cylinder head. As a result, exhaust gases did not flow from head to head on a cross ram engine. Therefore, no "exhaust heat riser valve" was required or installed on the ram engines. Each ram manifold receives exhaust flow from the respective exhaust manifold below it on a continuous basis.
Hopefully we are all on "one page" now. I welcome any comments or differing opinions.
Chris the K MANIAC
-----Original Message----- From: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: 'Michael Moore' <mmoore8425@xxxxxxx> Cc: Chrysler300 <Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wed, Jan 29, 2014 1:20 pm Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Manifolds and carbs Only one carb was connected to your setup? So you started on 4 cylinders..? The J setup manual choke split in two if I remember right , made both carbs do exactly the same thing.. What you want ...
They should have had one choke control and cross link the carb fast idle and choke mechanically. Not sure why they did not do that. Would have cost less and worked right.. What they do matters less ----than they do it together.
Exhaust heat riser valves both have to be in sync too. Or you get loping idle , stalls when you push D on cold days, equals starting it 5-6 times . If you had manual choke on both, (J) , it just let you raise idle high enough manually when cold to cover up all this. But still harsh D engagement was the norm. Tests that fine front U joint on 60 -61, too!!. “Clang” !!---J had a little looser converter, not as harsh maybe.
And they are a bear to start if they get badly flooded , not sure why..My .02: = maybe gas sits in a deep puddle at bottom of ram under carb till it is good and ready to evaporate out, (no other way out) but a squirt of ether and away you go. On regular manifold, that gas would run down into ports.
Despite working on these on and off for what 50 years now, I admit to lots of suffering along the way. Can do in minutes what used to baffle me for a day. One key thing I found is that many, if not most of the carbs have destroyed adjusting needles by now , due to all the playing with them..if you see a ring or step worn circumferentially around the needle, no question -- it is junk. Cannot be adjusted right. That ring comes from “golden screwdriver “ and going too tight into hole, prior to “backing out 1.5 turns” . I found new Edelbrock needles (spare parts from them) are beefier and fit and work even with possible damage in carb body..taper is slightly different. .# 1 thing you can do about frustrating drifty funky idle setup. ..that changes by itself every time you look at it. I mistakenly junked several “untuneable “ ‘defective” carbs before knowing that, After careful rebuilds, still the idle problem remained .....
From: Michael Moore [mailto:mmoore8425@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:02 AM To: John Grady Cc: kmaniak@xxxxxxx; mark6268@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Manifolds and carbs John,
I have owned my 300H since 1965 or so. When I got my car, it had a very nnicely installed manual choke. It was a very clean installation, which I thought was factory for a while, using one of the unused round knobs beneath the dome of the instrument panel. The unused knob had a set screw and was used to connect to a choke wire which went to the rear carb. It was actually, I thought, much more useful than my curent electric stove choke.
I only removed it because it would gradually creep into the choke position as the engine vibrated, so I frequently had to push the choke back in. Sometimes, on a long trip, I woujld only notice it when I realized the engine wasn't running right and would find the choke fully engaged.
Otherwise, I thought the car started easier as I could momentarily choke the crap out of it if it was cold and as soon as it fired start coming off of choke.
Mike Moore
300H
On Jan 29, 2014, at 4:21 AM, John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Another aspect of this was very poor choke pull off on ram cars ; one side pulls off before other even today . Certain types of cutomers would not deal with this in 60 , 61. I was there , one person i know had rams pulled off 383 61 plymouth wagon over terrible idle /cold start /warmup stalling isuues in Boston ... New car .
J and K (?) had manual chokes to ensure syncrony . Ram cars are cut a lot of slack today , but remembet at meet in maine it took 5 club membets half an hour to start a perfect flooded F
N On Jan 28, 2014, at 11:00 PM, kmaniak@xxxxxxx wrote:
__._,_.___ To send a message to this group, send an email to: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or go to http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Chrysler300/join and select the "Leave Group" button For list server instructions, go to http://www.chrysler300club.com/yahoolist/inst.htm For archives go to http://www.forwardlook.net/300-archive/search.htm#querylang
Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___ |