Gary and All:
When I was at Jeff Assy, (1978 to 1981) there was no longer an
Imperial. There was just the one line. According to my model year
charts, the Imperial moved from the Imperial Plant to Jefferson for the 1962
Model Year. That was before I worked at Chrysler, so I do not know about
the assy. line arrangement, but it would seem to me the body/frame cars would
have to have been separate. Perhaps someone else can answer
that. Again, my model year charts do not indicate production plant
before 1960 (Imperial Plant), so can't help with the starting date for Warren
Assy. Would take a guess at 1957, though, since that
Imperial was a much different car than the Chryslers built at
Jefferson.
OK---that is enough non-300 stuff for now!
300ly, Gil Cunningham
In a message dated 1/11/2014 10:05:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
moparfan@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
In
the mid 1980's I worked in the Engine Hot Test at Chrysler's Trenton Engine
Plant. The old timers told me that the engines that passed the test the first
time without needing any repairs were tagged as potential Imperial engines.
These were not any kind of permanent stamping, just a tag on the rack holding
the engines.
Nancy, the Imperials were assembled in their own plant on Warren Avenue
from, I think, 1957 to 1966. This is actually in Dearborn, MI but the property
abuts the Detroit border. Much of that plant is actually still standing but is
now used for producing some kind of ethnic food products. Go to Google Maps
(www.maps.google.com) and enter address "8505 Warren Avenue, Dearborn, MI" to
see it.
When the production was moved to the Jefferson Road plant in Detroit,
they may have had their own separate line separate from the other vehicles
being produced there. Maybe Gil Cunningham can speak to that?
Gary Runkel
Canton, MI
I remember hearing something about picking only the best blocks for
Imperials. Don't know exactly when but I think it may have been in the late
fifties that this was supposed to be done. I do not know if it was true.
I do know that in the late fifties and the early sixties too Imperials
were supposed to have been assembled on their own line and only in
Detroit. I think I even once heard that they were even given a brief
road test before they left the factory. Anyone know anything else about
this?
Regards,
Nancy Kramer
At 06:26 PM
1/11/2014, Ray Jones wrote:
There are others that know more than
I do about this, and maybe they will chime in here. I recall hearing that
the early Hemi blocks were cast, then put out in a field for a year to
cure. They were then brought in and machined. This made sure there would
be no block distortion after machining. I don't remember when this
practice stopped, not sure if it held over into the 413 HP blocks or
not.
Just the ramblings of on old mind... Ray
On Sat,
Jan 11, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Rich Barber <c300@xxxxxxx> wrote:
- I had heard or read that, in 1955 anyway, the 300 blocks were
cherry-picked after the cylinders were bored. If no porosity was
present they might be sent to be made into 300 engines and stamped
accordingly. If porosity was observed, they would be sleeved and put
in New Yorkers. It’s entirely possible this same process was used to
select Imperial blocks. Otherwise, structure and external cast-in numbers
were the same. I suspect that practice might have continued for some
time on an unofficial basis. If Chrysler had noted any block
failures due to high performance cars, they might have beefed up all the
blocks rather than establish a different production process just for the
HP engines.
- I also recall hearing that some MoPar HP engines were actually
assembled on different lines and even by different organizations that were
more used to building close-tolerance race engines.
- C300K’ly,
- Rich Barber
- Brentwood, CA
- 1955 C-300; VIN: 3N551198; Engine stamped: 3NE551098.
’55-’58 hemi engines were individually serial numbered but the serial
numbers rarely, if ever, matched the chassis VIN.
- From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael Moore
- Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 7:49 AM
- To: therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx
- Cc: 300 Club
- Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Value of correct date block
- Curious minds want to know:
- What exactly is the dofference in the blocks which are HP and those
whci are not? Is it simply inspection (as I understand Imperials once
were)?
- Mike Moore
- 300H
- On Jan 11, 2014, at 7:45 AM, therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
- oooops, I meant "V41" block............
- From: therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx
- To: "300 Club" <
chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 9:43:16 AM
- Subject: Fwd: [Chrysler300] Value of correct date block
- Group:
- So, is it confirmed that all 1960 F's were not born with an engine
stamp denoting "HP"? That certainly would make Shannon's search for
a "date correct" block much easier - any 413 will do (dated
appropriately). If that is the case, I agree that the added value is
definitely worth the effort to find it.
- And I keep my interest in the "A41" block out there.....
- Dan Richardson
- 300L Family Heirloom
- (w/ a '67 Imperial's 440 in it - funny thing is, I think my original
413 HP is running around Chicagoland in a white '67 Charger! Just
can't find it!)
- From: therichardsonfamily@xxxxxxxxxxx
- To: LabLoverDC@xxxxxxx
- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 3:05:21 PM
- Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Value of correct date block
- Shannon:
- I have asked this same question - I have an L with a '67 440 in
it. With my car, I am choosing not to stress out about it too
much. A) - I don't have unlimited resources, and B) - an L is
definitely the least prized of the Letter cars. Besides that, I'm
not too sure how many "HP" blocks you can find out there.
- Having said that, an F is much more valuable in general, even more so
with the original motor but, with a "date correct" block (as long as it's
disclosed) I can't imagine you detract from a "numbers matching" value too
much. Just an observation and opinion. If you have the time,
and patience, you may be able to uncover the right block.
- If you are on a schedule that doesn't allow a year or two to look,
perhaps you take a stab at it briefly, and then just move forward.
Who knows, maybe a "V41" is the right date code for my early build '65 L
and you have me as a customer for yours? Perhaps it would be in my
best interest to help you look?
- Good luck in whatever you choose, and keep my name in case you do want
to sell the "V41" block.
- Dan Richardson
- 300L Family Heirloom
- From: LabLoverDC@xxxxxxx
- To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 2:25:05 PM
- Subject: [Chrysler300] Value of correct date block
- Hello All--Thanks to the excellent information offered here, I've
determined the block in our 300 F appears to be from 1964 (V41 HP).
As nearly as we can tell, at some point prior to our owning the car, a
short block was put in. It appears that everything else (ram
induction, carbs, heads, etc.) are proper and presumably original to the
car.
- The engine is out of the car, and we are undertaking a complete
re-build of it. My question is, does anyone have an opinion as to
whether we should stick with the 1964 block we have, or try to find a 1960
P41 block, which of course would still not be original to the car but
would be mostly correct from a date standpoint? Does that add
significant value (enough to make it worth it to go through the expense
and trouble of finding a '60 block)?
- For a point of reference, we are doing a complete, sub-frame off
restoration. While we're not necessarily trying for a concours job,
especially with detailed correctness in things like wires, labels,
batteries, etc., it will be a very high quality restoration, perhaps one
step down from concours (at least, that's what we hope to end up
with). The car itself is a black/tan convertible with factory air,
and all of the options appear to be correct according to the build sheet
if that helps.
- I would welcome anyone's opinion on this subject.
- Shannon
-- Ray Jones. Y'all come on down
an see us. Ya hear?
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