Re: [Chrysler300] Dupont Freon R-12

[John <spiers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

One huge safety issue I haven't seen discussed yet about this recent topic - 
many of the refrigerants marketed as R-12 substitutes contain propane or other 
FLAMMABLE gases that work great as refrigerants - until you have a leak or are 
in an accident, then you're in trouble.  One automotive A/C guy I know claims 
there are NO direct drop-in replacements for R-12.

John Spiers
Lake Worth, Florida




________________________________
From: Warren Anderson <wranderson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Bob Jasinski <rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 1:08:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] Dupont Freon R-12

  

A quick Google search and reference to  Wikipedia on the subject Freon. Dupont 
did market CFC Freon products and other than R-12. Not no more.. Just any 
refrigerant is not Freon. R-12 can be Freon or may have some other brand name. 
Dupont  R-12 is Freon. 


The current, most prevalent anyway, OE automotive refrigerant is R-134A which is 
not a CFC and is not Freon. Neither is anything else except R-12 by Dupont and 
their other CFC refrigerants in the family.

What I do see is Freon with a lower case 'f' (freon) used in a lot of cases for 
some refrigerants that definately are not R-12. Maybe the lower case 'f' is 
being used like 'k' in 'kleenex' and 'j' in Jeep?

Nobody cares. Not important. 

Warren Anderson
Sedona,AZ

Gary,

I'm kinda scratching my head here on your post. The subject line says R12A,
but the body says R-12. Aren't you referring to standard R-12 refrigerant
here? I wouldn't expect any problem with using the same refrigerant that
the system was designed for. Or, do you mean R12A is different? Please
explain, I've never heard of R12A, only R12 or Freon 12, that's been the
standard for years.

Thanks!

Bob J

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Gary Barker
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 10:59 PM
To: 'Keith Boonstra'; 'Warren Anderson'; Louis M. Barrie
Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 'Jonnie'
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] R12A

I bought a large container of R-12 many years ago and have charged several
of my friends old cars and have had no problem with it. Gary Barker

From: Louis M. Barrie 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 8:15 PM
To: 'Keith Boonstra' ; 'Warren Anderson' 
Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ;
'Jonnie' 
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] R12A

When Big Yellow was finished with restoration in 2004, we charged up the
system with R-134 (we did not change the fittings). We have had no problems
over 6+ years in the hot CA summer. At the beginning of the season, I have
added a little bit of refrigerant, purchased at Wal-Mart, under $10.00/can,
and the air blows cold and the car stays cool.

No paperwork, no license or test, no major investment.

Louis M. Barrie

West Hills, CA 

Home of Big Yellow

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:Chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On
Behalf Of Keith Boonstra
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 7:19 PM
To: Warren Anderson
Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com> ;
Jonnie
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] R12A

I agree. At the risk of sounding like a salesman for R-12 I will say 
that the bottom line is that nothing will be gained, but various 
negatives will likely crop up, when you make a switch from R-12 to 
anything else in an old system. Especially R-134A. If you don't go 
through the entire system and at least change to a higher efficiency 
condenser and barrier hose and seals - along with the proper oil - 
you're going to have problems and poor cooling.

With R-12 readily available at $350 there's really no point in 
changing. It's still the best one they have ever come up with. So just 
make sure all the components of your old setup are in good repair and 
charge it up with the R-12.

Keith Boonstra

6/20/2011 9:19 PM, Warren Anderson wrote:
>
>
> Johnnie,
>
> Refrigerant blends have a reported negative effect characteristic of 
> separating in service. So, the system ends up with some unknown 
> mixture of chemicals. For some old clunker the resultant mixture might 
> be just fine but for something worth keeping, where the AC system is 
> expected to really work, original fill R-12 was and still is an 
> excellent refrigerant. People that test and evaluate refrigerants find 
> that the old R-12 was an excellent refrigerant with nothing developed 
> so far that performance wise for mobile systems works as well.
>
> Second choice I think is R-134A.. As this is original equipment right 
> now and, with proper system components, does provide acceptable 
> performance, I think it makes sense to use it for retrofits. But, 
> things like expansion valves, receiver driers, hoses and the condenser 
> need to be upgraded along with the compressor and the system 
> lubricant. This I have done anf it works well.
>
> New refrigerant are on the way to replace R-134A. Last I heard, the 
> new refrigerants will not be backwards compatible.
>
> Warren Anderson
> Sedona,AZ
>
> it seems there are several products out there like R12A----but none of 
> them are an exact substitute for R12---we are buying a 30 pound tank 
> of R12---should be around $550---I already bought a 30 pounder that 
> was susposed to have been around half full---it contained around 2 
> pounds-----thankfully I never paid that much for it--------Johnnie Slayton
>
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>
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>
> 

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