RE: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!

[Ryan Hill <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I personally have never experienced a wheel failure and have run all different types of tires, radials and bias plys, on original mopar steel wheels for many years. I would have thought twice about running my muscle cars as fast and as hard as I have if I'd heard some of these stories 15 or 20 years ago! 

 

I have to believe that if several members have experienced failures that they indeed can occur and I point to what I would suspect as the cause. Metal fatigue occurs in all sorts of areas on an automobile, wheels are no different. Ever had a hubcap fly off as you round a corner? The wheel is of course flexing, I just never realized a steel wheel would weaken to the point of failure without severe corrosion or an impact. 

 

Has anyone ever magnafluxed an old wheel to look for fractures? Are new wheels any better? I know the chrome on my 'new' magnum 500's is of poor quality, I wonder if the wheel itself is any stronger....



Ryan Hill 


 


To: edward1108@xxxxxxxxx
CC: awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx; cpaviper@xxxxxxxxxxx; ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
From: millserat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:19:55 -0500
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!

  



Its a matter of opinion - if you are going to race or run in extreme 
conditions, high speeds, high pressure, high temperature, probably 
safest to get new wheels. But only wheels I've ever seen fail were new 3 
piece aluminum wheels - and they failed the bolts holding the hat 
sections to center in race conditions. Probably bigger issue would be 
age of tires and whether they have flat spotted from sitting static for 
months or years.

In general, steel will be tougher than alloys and less subject to 
fatigue. Personally I would not hesitate to put a radial on a good old 
steel wheel (good lug holes, not significantly corroded, and not bent & 
straightened)- but then I'm not going to run an antique car at high 
speeds or corner like a race car.

I don't fully understand where the "flexure" or "fatigue" loads are 
coming from - in general, the tire would act like a soft spring compared 
to a steel wheel and would tend to isolate the wheel from most loads 
except for pressure, acceleration, and cornering forces. Exceptions 
would include things like hitting a curb or wheels involved in accidents.

just my 2 cents worth
best, Ed

Val Jeffers wrote:
> 
>
> So you don't ever want to mount new radials on the old wheels ?
> 
> 
> Val Jeffers
> In 
> Almost Heaven WV !
>
> --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Ryan Hill <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:ryan_hillc300%40hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> From: Ryan Hill <ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:ryan_hillc300%40hotmail.com>>
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!
> To: awrdoc@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:awrdoc%40yahoo.com>, cpaviper@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:cpaviper%40comcast.net>
> Cc: "Chrysler 300" <chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> <mailto:chrysler300%40yahoogroups.com>>
> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 1:35 PM
>
> 
>
> Just a quick observation regarding the failure of original steel 
> wheels with or without radials.
>
> It seems to me that these failures have far more to do with fatigue 
> and usage than age or design themselves. I would bet a high milage 50 
> year old set of wheels that have been exposed to high temperatures, 
> flexing (fatigue), and no doubt some degree of corrosion over the 
> course of a half century are more likely to fail than the same wheel 
> that has low or no milage, regardless of the tire mounted on it. I'd 
> be looking to build sets from all those spare tire rims that have 
> barely been used.
>
> Ryan Hill (Vancouver, B.C.)
>
> '65 Chrysler 300
>
> '68 Dodge Charger
>
> To: cpaviper@comcast. net
> CC: Chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com
> From: awrdoc@yahoo. com
> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:23:43 -0700
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!
>
> Sorry, regarding the wheels themselves the original wheels flex too 
> much for radial tires and are an accident waiting to happen. With all 
> due respect to those who empirically swear that they have been running 
> new radialds on old wheels for many a year I am happy that they are 
> still on this planet and have not been involved in a catastrophic 
> failure of an original wheel at high speeds. They should be playing 
> the lottery with such good luck.
>
> We are lucky that Stockton Wheels can make a modern replacement wheel 
> that looks OEM for our 14&quot; wheels.
>
> cpaviper@comcast. net wrote:
> >
> > After reading the Club emails over the past few years discussing 
> tires - I'm still trying to zero in on what to buy for our F Coupe.
> > Re Coker, I'm still hearing issues - just about every Coker-related 
> message talks to problems with balancing, and that they've hopefullly 
> resolved their structural integrity issues. Re American Classics, 
> their website gives no info - just refers to Coker, Universal, Lucas 
> as distributors. Comparing the Coker and American Classic P235/75R14s, 
> the load capacities, tread widths, section widths and overall 
> diameters are identical - only Co ker catalog's UTQG (Uniform Tire 
> Quality Grade) ratings differ between the 2 "brands " (American 
> Classic's 540BB rating is apparently better than Coker's 400BB rating) 
> and the Coker tire price is a few bucks more. Sounds like we're still 
> unclear whether American Classic and Co ker are one and the same tire 
> - the tread patterns in the catalog photos appear identical.
> > I called Diamond Back this morning and spoke with one of their sales 
> reps, Jim. He advised that there's no current maker of a quality 
> P235/75R14 tire today - could be a dig against Coker? He did say that 
> they're working on a 75 series 14" radial that will approximate the 
> tire size we're all looking for. They just received their first test 
> version of it, are were not at all pleased - he estimates that any 
> such tire won't be ready to market until next summer [2010] or later.
> > He did offer up the following suggestion, and I'm wondering if any 
> of you have tried this. Diamond Back sells a European Metric tire 
> that's also used on vans and light trucks, and that he says works very 
> well in automotive applications. He says handling and road noise are 
> very good. The tire's height is 27.3", vs Coker's 27.87"; tread width 
> of 6.3" is the same as Coker's; cross-section of 8.5" is 3/4" narrower 
> than Coker's 9.25"; it's a 6-ply tire rated at 2464# vs Coker's 1930#, 
> is manufactured by Federal, and it replaces 225/75R14 - is described 
> on Page 6 of their 2009 catalog. The tire does come in a 2 1/2" wide 
> whitewalls.
> > Is anyone out there running these tires? Or had any experience with 
> them?
> > And there's also the continuing debate re installing new rims. 
> Diamond Back's website quotes the 12/6/07 Old Cars Weekly article that 
> we saw on our Club website a few months back, and says the claim is 
> bogus, that there's no alloy difference, and no markings on rims to 
> indicate use with bias or radial tires. DB's argument in fact states 
> that radials absorb more impact and are therefore less stressful on 
> rims than are bias ply tires. Any new thoughts on this, as we're still 
> running the original 1960 rims on the F?
> > Th anks for your input, and apologies for again bringing up an old 
> topic !
> > Noel Hastalis
> > Burr Ridge, IL
> > And there's also the continuing debate re installing new rims. 
> Diamond Back's website quotes the 12/6/07 Old Cars Weekly article that 
> we saw on our Club website a few months back, and says the claim is 
> bogus, that there's no alloy difference, and no markings on rims to 
> indicate use with bias or radial tires. DB's argument in fact states 
> that radials absorb more impact and are therefore less stressful on 
> rims than are bias ply tires. Any new thoughts on this, as we're still 
> running the original 1960 rims on the F?
> > Th anks for your input, and apologies for again bringing up an old 
> topic !
> > Noel Hastalis
> > Burr Ridge, IL
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
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> 









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