Re: [Chrysler300] Re: AMAs, 355HP, Manual C300, et.al.

["RLS" <obiwan10@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

In all of these dyno runs, are there any reports of findings that anyone has access to?  Would be interesting to find what factory stock engines and those that were used by Kiekhaefer and others may produced.  Also if the racers did produce substantially higher outputs, what modifications or special tuning was used to accomplish.  Someone certainly has some or much of this data squirreled away somewhere.  Perhaps one day someone will write book of those days and some of the stories.  I myself would find such a book very interesting, and even more so if it were to include the big Lincolns and Pan American races.  There is a local car that I have seen at a couple of Concours that looks a dead on copy of a 53 Lincoln with all the decals and painting.  Extremely nice car and quite a sight to behold. 

I did recently pick up the DVD set of stock car racing from the late 50's.  Costco has them at about 12.00.  Have not viewed it yet.

Incidentally Amazon has a 4 DVD set of the original Route 66 series.  I had really forgotten just how well these segments were produced.  I would say that the story lines and acting was equivalent of Hitchcock Presents or the Twilight Zone programs.  Many of our later to be famous actors appear in these old 66 segments just as in Hitchcock or Twilight.

http://www.amazon.com/Route-66-Season-Vol-1/dp/B000TV1SSS

Roger Schaaf



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Dan Elliott 
  To: Wayne Graefen ; Intl 300 
  Cc: us@xxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 11:19 AM
  Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] Re: AMAs, 355HP, Manual C300, et.al.


  Unfortunately, much of our discussion on this issue is subjective, including
  the
  comments in the post to which I am responding. Over several years now,
  I've spoken at length to Kiekhaefer pit crew
  fellows, as I suspect you have too, Wayne. In the absence of hard evidence,
  i.e. Kiekhaefer
  documentation or NASCAR, the comments of these people are the best we have.
  I've seem
  some of Karl P's documentation, and I can't conclude that any 1955 cars were
  rebodied into
  1956 models. They may have been, but it is really not that important.
  During the course of the two
  seasons, the cars were so extensively modified both mechanically every week
  and in the constant body panel
  replacement and repainting, that to conclude that any particular car at
  season's end was serial number xxx
  just as it started the season would be incorrect. I believe that Fonty and
  his brother Tim, both raced manual
  transmission cars at the same races during the 1955 season, as well as
  others. During 1955, the rules didn't
  require a manual trans factory option, as they did in 1956. There are other
  anomolies as well. Some NASCAR
  programs in 1955 (see the mid season program for the 100 Mile race at
  Charlotte) list Tim Flock as the owner of
  Chrysler 300 #300 and Fonty as the owner of Chrysler 300 #301. I believe
  that is part of the genesis of the arguement
  that the one remaining Kiekhaefer race car currently owned by the Henry Ford
  museum was actually Tim's car from
  1955. When Tim was alive, it is said that he held that opinion. Hence the
  rumor over rebodying of the 1955 cars.
  By the way, Fonty was first in that race and Tim was second; Fonty's car
  definately would have been slower if he
  had a powerflite.

  One pit crew member told me that they stopped at
  a Chrylser dealership on the way to a race because they didn't have what
  they considered to be the proper
  gear ratio. A brand new car at the dealership had the correct ratio; the
  team purchased the third member from of the car
  and installed it in the race car. They did whatever they had to do to win,
  just as every other team did, especially
  the Ford and Chevy backed teams. Carl and team were constantly
  experimenting with every sort of combination
  of Chrysler, Dodge, Ford and Chevy application in 1955 and especially 1956.
  He ran engines on his dyno at full
  throttle just to see how much time it would take to make them blow up. He
  ordered from Chrysler a 300B converted
  to a convertible to see if it would be useful on the convertible circuit
  newly created in 1956 (it was not, in his opinion,
  and he sent it back to Chrysler).

  Anyhow, won't it be great if we ever get the real documentation? A couple
  of years
  ago, Kiekhaefer pit crew members were working with some documentation in the
  context of opening a museum, but
  that effort was shelved due to some "corporate difficulties" that manifested
  themselves in the various transfers of
  corporate ownership of Mercury Marine over the years. The building became
  unavailable, even though Carl had
  seen the need for a museum before he died.

  I can't speak to the 1957 cars, I'll take your word for it. A three speed
  torque flite was available in 1956 too, but
  I've never seen any evidence that Carl used them in the 300B. However,
  this is an open question as far as I am
  concerned, because about 30 300B's were produced with torque flites.
  Perhaps Gil has a good feel for where the
  torque flite cars went; I'm sure Carl must have at least tested this
  transmission for use in 1956 NASCAR.

  Dan

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
  Behalf Of Wayne Graefen
  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:30 AM
  To: Intl 300
  Subject: [Chrysler300] Re: AMAs, 355HP, Manual C300, et.al.

  In any discussion of what the Kiekhaefer /Mercury Outboards race team did
  with our beloved Chrysler 300s, let us always keep in mind that the dominant
  abilities of the '55-56 300 Letter Cars was NEVER tarnished by anything
  found illegal on any of his cars at any NASCAR or AAA race venue, nor was
  any fine ever imposed for any illegality on any of his far more numerous
  race boats. Carl had a reputation for total honesty with his racers and that
  is something we as keepers of the Letter Cars can be very proud of. Now, the
  rule book of the day was truly extremely brief and there was a great deal of
  gray area that was addressed continually resulting in the encyclopedia of
  rules for racing today. No racer won who didn't work extensively in the gray
  but it was all legal and it was intended to promote development through
  experimentation.

  I'd also like to comment on the postulating about stick shift cars. There
  was only ever one C300 stick car built at the factory and it was because
  Kiekhaefer's driver demanded it. None of the other C300s raced as stick
  shift cars. Now some of the '55 chassis were rebodied as '56 cars and we
  know there were both manual shift 340HP and 355HP 300Bs built so some '55
  chassis may have raced in '56 after conversion to stick.
  But what was Carl's preference? He liked the automatics. In '57 when he
  ordered three 300C hardtops with thoughts of going NASCAR road racing (a
  series that was cancelled early summer of '57) the three cars were all
  automatics and this despite the fact there was the 390HP manual trans
  package available from the factory.
  The first car ordered was just experimental and was rather quickly sold.
  The next two were special orders of hardtops with convertible frames with
  Imperial hubs and drums with the 390HP engine and TORQUEFLITES. These are
  called Road America competition models in his correspondence with the
  factory indicating he at least intended to compete at the race scheduled for
  the Elkhart Lake Road America course near his corporate plants.
  I own the Charcoal Gray 300C Road America.

  Wayne G

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